Seabed / AION Vector - clipping

H

harmaes

Well-known member
I've build a AION Vector some time ago and use it as the last pedal before the Flint and amp. I use this pedal only as a slap delay with no repeats and a low delaytime. This sounds different then a slap delay on a Timeline.

If I drive the input with comp and/or boost pedals (Tchula - Tsos - RCB) I can easily get the circuit to clip and it starts to crackle in a way I don't like. This is a different clipping sound then driving the Flint and amp with boost/comps which I really like. :)

Are there ways to mod the Vector circuit? Is the Seabed better protected for this clipping?
Is the original Deep Blue Delay from MP also having this issue? Anyone played through that/owning one?
I need to compare the circuits but I noticed a 1M vs a 2M2 on the input but I doubt if that would make the difference.

Alternatives? PPCB Magnetron? Or buy a Carbon Copy, Deep Blue Delay, Boss DM-2W?
 
Last edited:
harmaes said:
I've build a AION Vector some time ago and use it as the last pedal before the Flint and amp. I use this pedal only as a slap delay with no repeats and a low delaytime. This sounds different then a slap delay on a Timeline.

If I drive the input with comp and/or boost pedals (Tchula - Tsos - RCB) I can easily get the circuit to clip and it starts to crackle in a way I don't like. This is a different clipping sound then driving the Flint and amp with boost/comps which I really like. :)

Are there ways to mod the Vector circuit? Is the Seabed better protected for this clipping?
Is the original Deep Blue Delay from MP also having this issue? Anyone played through that/owning one?
I need to compare the circuits but I noticed a 1M vs a 2M2 on the input but I doubt if that would make the difference.

Alternatives? PPCB Magnetron? Or buy a Carbon Copy, Deep Blue Delay, Boss DM-2W?
Click to expand...
Post good Picture of the PCB showing the Resistors clearly.
PT2399 have been known to be hit & miss when used & you could try another one from a different supplier/different batch???

From Aion FX Vector Bild PDF:
PT2399 chip. Make sure you get your PT2399 chip from a reputable source such as Small Bear Electronics. You can find them from places like Tayda and eBay for much cheaper, but more often than not, these are either fakes or factory rejects. As a result, they may behave oddly, have higher noise, or just not work at all.
 
music6000 said:
Post good Picture of the PCB showing the Resistors clearly.
PT2399 have been known to be hit & miss when used & you could try another one from a different supplier/different batch???

From Aion FX Vector Bild PDF:
PT2399 chip. Make the sure you get your PT2399 chip from a reputable source such as Small Bear Electronics. You can find them from places like Tayda and eBay for much cheaper, but more often than not, these are either fakes or factory rejects. As a result, they may behave oddly, have higher noise, or just not work at all.
Click to expand...
I’ll post a pic later.
In this video the Deep Blue delay does kinda the same ugly clipping when Matt Schofield uses the Twimble on the bridge pickup and pushes the input of the DBD:
I’ll try with a battery to see if this changes the behavior.
 
I’ve had a bad TL072 before so I’ll check if have a replacement for that as well.
The battery instead of my power supplies (Cioks) didn’t make a difference. Humbuckers vs single coils do make some difference, the latter make the DBD clip much later. Also noticed that one of my guitars tuned in B makes the DBD clip the fastest. I use a bridge HB and a parallel neck HB on that one.
 
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harmaes said:
I’ve had a bad TL072 before so I’ll check if have a replacement for that as well.
The battery instead of my power supplies (Cioks) didn’t make a difference. Humbuckers vs single coils do make some difference, the latter make the DBD clip much later. Also noticed that one of my guitars tuned in B makes the DBD clip the fastest. I use a bridge HB and a parallel neck HB on that one.
Click to expand...
I have noted that you used a diffused Green led @ D2. It clips around 1.8v?
Aion Vector Build PDF suggest a water clear Green led which clips around 2v to 2.3v so that may impact what your are Hearing?
 
music6000 said:
I have noted that you used a diffused Green led @ D2. It clips around 1.8v?
Aion Vector Build PDF suggest a water clear Green led which clips around 2v to 2.3v so that may impact what your are Hearing?
Click to expand...
Ok, I don’t have a clear green led but might have something close to it. I do read in the build docs of the Vector that a 3mm diffused led is mentioned as optional.

I noticed that PPCB and Musikding both don’t use this led and trimpot in their circuit copies of the DBD?

Other part differences are the 2m2 input pull down resistor which is 1M in the PPCB and Musikding designs, which isn’t really involved in the issue.
100k resistor before the output in the AION and Musikding but not in the PPCB
 
The AION documentation BOM contains a 3mm diffused green led and later on he mentions to use a water-clear green led. I will see what I have that comes in the range of 2-2.3v
 
music6000 said:
I have noted that you used a diffused Green led @ D2. It clips around 1.8v?
Aion Vector Build PDF suggest a water clear Green led which clips around 2v to 2.3v so that may impact what your are Hearing?
Click to expand...
The 3mm green led clips around 2v, similar as a 5mm diffused led. The only clear led I have is a blue 5mm which clips at around 2,6v. Not sure if that will work but I’ll experiment with leds and TL072 opamps later today.
 
If all your caps are rated high enough, you can run it at up to 15v, which will increase the headroom. I have a seabed, and find it has at least the same headroom as most of the other delays I’ve used. (In all fairness, only 6 or 7). I hate that sound too! Hopefully the change of ICs will take care of it for you. I also use it as a slapback mainly, and really like the sound.
 
Alan W said:
If all your caps are rated high enough, you can run it at up to 15v, which will increase the headroom. I have a seabed, and find it has at least the same headroom as most of the other delays I’ve used. (In all fairness, only 6 or 7). I hate that sound too! Hopefully the change of ICs will take care of it for you. I also use it as a slapback mainly, and really like the sound.
Click to expand...
I’ll try running it at higher voltage. Caps are all 25v or above. Can it be run at 18v or is 15v max? The voltage for the PT2399 is regulated at 5V right?
 
harmaes said:
Good question, I followed the schematic of AION but I’ll experiment with a 5mm led to see if I get it to light up
Click to expand...
You have a Socket so you can Test that Led cathode goes to Ground.
Check for continuity to see which Socket pin is going to Ground.
 
Pull the PT2399 out of the socket and see if the clean / dry signal distorts.

If so, no monkeying around with the PT2399 circuit is going to fix that and you'll want to focus on the input / output stages.
 
Last edited:
harmaes said:
I’ll try running it at higher voltage. Caps are all 25v or above. Can it be run at 18v or is 15v max? The voltage for the PT2399 is regulated at 5V right?
Click to expand...
I believe 15v is max. IC3 regulates the 5v for the 2399.
 
harmaes said:
Good question, I followed the schematic of AION but I’ll experiment with a 5mm led to see if I get it to light up
Click to expand...
5mm or 3mm doesnt matter. But with the led correctly oriented, the pt2399 chip shouldnt distort at all really.
 
Ok, I replaced the 3mm led with a 5mm clear blue led with a mV around 2.6v which reduced the clipping. It lights up so it’s working correctly. ;)
I run the pedal at 12v now which improved the headroom a little. I also run at 18v and it kept working but no real change in response from 12v TBH. I’ve also replaced the TL072 which didn’t seem to make much of a difference.

Thanks for all your help!
BTW, the Seabed and Musikding DBD clone should both have audible clipping because they’re not using a led?
 
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