Aion Termina (Timmy) to Jan Ray?

[Noodles]

I'm wondering if anyone has used the Termina PCB to create a Jan Ray clone. I'm starting with that PCB rather than the Tommy as a quick look (to me) suggests it's easier to change the values to match the Jan Ray schematic.

I've compared component to component and it seems pretty straightforward. I see the Jan Ray uses a B10K for the volume pot vs an A25K with a 18K resistor in parallel (isn't that basically a 10K pot, in essence?). I'm a little unclear on the log/antilog to linear practical effect. I know the bass switches from a "subtract" to an "add" control.

Here are the changes I'm planning to make. I would appreciate any comments regarding past experience or comments on my approach.

Part	Termina Value	JR Value
C1	39n	47pF
C2	47pF	22pF
C3	100pF	47pF
C4	39n
C5	1uF
C6	10n	47n
C7	2n2	150pF
C8	1uF
C9	47uF
C10	100uF
C11	100n
R1	510k	1M
R2	3k3
R3	9k1
R4	680R
R5	1k	1k2
R6	10k	3k3
R7	10k	3k3
R8	18k
R9	8k2	7k5
R10	10k	9k1
R11	100R
RPD	2M2	1M
LEDR	4k7
D1	1N5817
D2	1N914	1N4148
D3	1N914	1N4148
D4	1N914	1N4148
D5	1N914	1N4148
D6	1N914	1N4148
IC1	LM1458	LM4558N
BASS_TRIM	10k trimmer
GAIN	A1M	B500K
BASS	C50K	B50K
TREBLE	B50K	B10K
VOLUME	A25K	B10K

 

[HamishR]

Having built both on Vero quite a few times I would merely say that the differences in use are fairly minimal and that the trimmer in the Jan Ray seems superfluous. I'd probably just as soon just use a Timmy. The Vemuram Timmy which I think really is worth building is the Ibanez/Vemuram TSV-808. I have my own version of it where I just use a simplified midrange and leave out the mid pot and clipping switches and it sounds very, very good. I doubt you could built it on a Timmy board though. You could definitely built it on PedalPCB's TSV-808 board though.

 

[Noodles]

I've had a few real Timmys. I'm doing this version just to see if I actually notice any differences...plus it amuses me to do a clone of a (mostly) clone of a great pedal. Thanks for your thoughts. I'll check out the TSV-808.

 

[Brett]

If you decide to go down this route and try to build the Jan Ray on the Termina board, the value you have for C1 should be 47nF, not 47pF.

You have R9 and R10 swapped around. R9 should be 9.1KΩ and R10 should be 7.5KΩ.

I think that the rest of the values look okay. You may consider leaving the Bass control as an anti-log "C" taper, it's supposed to feel a little more natural for bass control in this circuit topology.

The clipping section does differ slightly between the two. The Jan Ray's clipping section is equivalent to having the clipping switch in the middle (off) position.

 

[Noodles]

If you decide to go down this route and try to build the Jan Ray on the Termina board, the value you have for C1 should be 47nF, not 47pF.

You have R9 and R10 swapped around. R9 should be 9.1KΩ and R10 should be 7.5KΩ.

I think that the rest of the values look okay. You may consider leaving the Bass control as an anti-log "C" taper, it's supposed to feel a little more natural for bass control in this circuit topology.

The clipping section does differ slightly between the two. The Jan Ray's clipping section is equivalent to having the clipping switch in the middle (off) position.

Good grief - thank you so much for the corrections. I had misread the discussion on freestompboxes re: the voltage divider.

Any thoughts on the volume control? I'm thinking of just leaving it at the Termina values since I think it gets to basically the same place. OTOH, if I used the Jan Ray values, I'm not 100% clear on whether I would leave the 18K/R8 position open or whether it requires a jumper.

 

[Brett]

Any thoughts on the volume control?

R8 looks like a tapering resistor. You'd just omit it if using the stock Jan Ray value for volume (B10K). Do not jumper the pads for R8.

 

[Noodles]

Thanks

 

[HamishR]

I've had a few real Timmys. I'm doing this version just to see if I actually notice any differences...plus it amuses me to do a clone of a (mostly) clone of a great pedal. Thanks for your thoughts. I'll check out the TSV-808.

I can relate to that! After all, I built a Jan Ray to see if I could hear the difference too!

I find it a bit annoying that people get sucked into buying this stuff. A friend of mine who now lives in another city told me via text that he had discovered this cool, expensive OD called a Jan Ray and it was amazing. He'd never tried a Timmy. How do I tactfully tell him that he could have got much the same thing for a fraction of the price?

 

[Barry]

I know a guy has a Jan Ray and a Timmy and swears the Jan Ray is nothing like the Timmy, If I paid the inflated price of a Jan Ray, I'm sure I would hear a difference too! Whether it was actually there or not!

 

[Feral Feline]

I know a guy has a Jan Ray and a Timmy and swears the Jan Ray is nothing like the Timmy, If I paid the inflated price of a Jan Ray, I'm sure I would hear a difference too! Whether it was actually there or not!

Bold emphasis mine

I"ve seen that (bolded) sentiment on EVERY forum for DIY I've ever encountered, including a few foreign language ones including Spanish and Russian — I bet you could find that on a Japanese site as well...

 

[HamishR]

Well there is a difference - but it's extremely subtle.

 

[MattG]

Bold emphasis mine

I"ve seen that (bolded) sentiment on EVERY forum for DIY I've ever encountered, including a few foreign language ones including Spanish and Russian — I bet you could find that on a Japanese site as well...

You should check out some audiophile forums. “I know it shouldn’t make a difference, but this $1300 power cable is like veils were lifted from my speakers! I’m hearing things in my reference tracks that I’ve never noticed before! And no I won’t submit to a double blind listening test!”

 

[jwin615]

This blog post says the only difference is the corner frequency of the treble control. 10k vs 6k.
Schematic in post, in case it helps anyone in the future --
or TOAN seeking time travelers in the past.

 

[HamishR]

I actually built another Jan Ray today from the same schematic jwin615 references above. My only deviation was to use a 3K3 instead of the trimmer, R3 and R12 because I felt that was a bit silly. If you imagine the trimmer at halfway it's close enough to 3K3. I wanted to try it again in case I missed something the first time around.

In that form it sounded even wimpier than I remembered. The treble pot doesn't work very well unless you turn it 3/4 the way up, so I used a C10K pot instead and reduced C7 from 47nF to 22nF. Like this it sounded quite nice but not very inspiring to me. It's very smooth and gentle; possibly too smooth and gentle and I think the stock Timmy sounds better. The Timmy's treble control works better.

I've tried quite a few Timmy variants now, as it's a great circuit to use as a starting point for experimentation. The TSV-808 is a far better Timmy variant IMO. I have tried the Lightspeed but again, for me the stock Timmy works better. I don't know why you'd lose the bass pot. I do like the Dane, especially if you add the bass pot back in. The Dane has a strangely convoluted diode arrangement for clipping but it works rather well and has much more punch and variation than the Jan Ray.

 

[HamishR]

And I just noticed that the Jan Ray is almost identical to the Lovepedal Super Stevie! I wonder who copied who?

 

[jwin615]

The treble pot doesn't work very well unless you turn it 3/4

A 10k treble pot seems pretty useless to me. Almost like they messed up their math, intending to have a 1k corner frequency.
It would be good as a cut only I guess. Could label it "Hiss"

 

[Noodles]

A 10k treble pot seems pretty useless to me. Almost like they messed up their math, intending to have a 1k corner frequency.
It would be good as a cut only I guess. Could label it "Hiss"

It is a cut on the Timmy, presumably the Jan Ray as well (but, sounds like, not as well executed). Unless I’m missing your point…

 

[Noodles]

In that form it sounded even wimpier than I remembered. The treble pot doesn't work very well unless you turn it 3/4 the way up, so I used a C10K pot instead and reduced C7 from 47nF to 22nF. Like this it sounded quite nice but not very inspiring to me. It's very smooth and gentle; possibly too smooth and gentle and I think the stock Timmy sounds better. The Timmy's treble control works better.

Because I’m still a circuit noob…what does the cap change do? Less treble to ground? Maybe I should socket this one and try both.

Out of curiosity, what kind of music do you play? Smooth and gentle is a positive for me as I normally play roots music and use ODs more as slightly dirty boosts. The Lightspeed sounds great to me putting aside the function losses vs a Timmy.

 

[jwin615]

It is a cut on the Timmy, presumably the Jan Ray as well (but, sounds like, not as well executed). Unless I’m missing your point…

Ah gotcha. Even then, 10k...

 

[HamishR]

I play a lot of roots styles too, and prefer a very low gain OD. But I like a wide dynamic range, as in I want it to be really quiet if I hit softly but really jump if I hit hard. The Jan Ray is a bit too gentle and I suspect it might get a bit lost in a mix.

C7 is a low-pass filter. It sends higher frequencies to ground. By reducing it from 47nF to 22nF you let more treble through. By using a C taper pot where 90% of the action happens in first half of the rotation and using a smaller value cap at C7 I don't have to turn treble most of the way up to get some brightness to the sound. I can get the sound I like at around noon on the treble pot. 10K is ok if you don't need to vary the treble too much.

I played the Jan Ray (with my slight mods) a bit more last night and I like it, but there are pedals I like more. I guess the Lightspeed annoys me because of what it is rather than how it sounds. I am all for simplification but anyone who frequents this place knows that I like a bass knob! If you're playing through a tweed or brown Deluxe which has no bass control then having one on the pedal is enormously useful. Even if your amp does have a bass control a bass knob on an OD helps you to balance it with the amp. Often I think a bass knob is more useful than a treble pot. I added a bass pot to my Dane pedal and it has become way more useful to me. It's not difficult to do because it's just another Timmy variant so most of the work has been done for you. Just look at the circuits and fill in the dots.