Box cap question

[jwyles90]

Hey all,

Apologies if this is a silly question, tried searching the forum for answers but couldn’t find much. I got an order from Tayda the other day and I ordered some of those 4n7 caps not realizing they were any different. I’ve never really seen anything like them before, so I’m just curious if they function the same as any other box cap, or if they have some specific purpose or use that I’m not aware of.
As far as I can see they just say lead free on the description, so I’m also curious if that has any impact on their performance in a circuit.

 

[Big Monk]

Hey all,

Apologies if this is a silly question, tried searching the forum for answers but couldn’t find much. I got an order from Tayda the other day and I ordered some of those 4n7 caps not realizing they were any different. I’ve never really seen anything like them before, so I’m just curious if they function the same as any other box cap, or if they have some specific purpose or use that I’m not aware of.
As far as I can see they just say lead free on the description, so I’m also curious if that has any impact on their performance in a circuit.

If they fit where you need them then they will work fine.

 

[BuddytheReow]

Beat me to it! What he said...

 

[jwyles90]

If they fit where you need them then they will work fine.

Beat me to it! What he said...

Well alrighty then! Thanks for the quick response y’all!

 

[Elijah-Baley]

Some caps I took away from my Boss MT-2 look like that.

 

[comradehoser]

Can I jump on this one?

I have built a couple pedal from Aion and PedalPCB, and one of the main differences is that Aion is fairly specific about particular types of capacitors--MLCC vs. box vs. ceramic, and the specific type in the BOM is generally reflected in the PCB print, whereas this is not the case in PedalPCB's BOM or prints--for example pf values (generally small ceramic or MLCC) in a box capacitor outline.

Obviously, I've noticed that pf values tend to be ceramic or MLCC, nf tend to be MLCC or box, and anything above 1uf is generally electrolytic. But are there factors determining when you would choose a particular type of capacitor (box, MLCC, tantalum, ceramic, electrolytic) over another of the same given value where the type is not specified, i.e.: in most PedalPCB boards?

 

[jwyles90]

Can I jump on this one?

I have built a couple pedal from Aion and PedalPCB, and one of the main differences is that Aion is fairly specific about particular types of capacitors--MLCC vs. box vs. ceramic, and the specific type in the BOM is generally reflected in the PCB print, whereas this is not the case in PedalPCB's BOM or prints--for example pf values (generally small ceramic or MLCC) in a box capacitor outline.

Obviously, I've noticed that pf values tend to be ceramic or MLCC, nf tend to be MLCC or box, and anything above 1uf is generally electrolytic. But are there factors determining when you would choose a particular type of capacitor (box, MLCC, tantalum, ceramic, electrolytic) over another of the same given value where the type is not specified, i.e.: in most PedalPCB boards?

So my knowledge of this isn't super extensive, and I'm sure there are people who know a lot more about this than me. That being said, my general understanding is that people tend to avoid using MLCCs when they are in the audio signal path. There's also some debate on whether or not this actually makes a difference though. For the most part I think the biggest difference is just the all around size of the component? Most PCBs are already laid out to factor in component sizing and spacing, but I've done a few vero builds where I subbed in a MLCC for a box cap since they fit better.

Generally, though, I've been under the impression that as long as the value and voltage is the same as what's required, and you don't need any kind of polarity or anything like that, any cap will work.

 

[spi]

Most of the effects I build are trying to damage the guitar signal. I don't get too hung up on which type of part it is, or tolerance, as long as the nominal value matches.

I may be thinking wrong about it, but so far I'm happy with everything I built so it works for me.

 

[jimilee]

I use mlccs for the physically larger caps. Large size caps just frustrates me, they’re the reason the back won’t close all the way.

 

[comradehoser]

OK, cool, and thank you to all three of you. I do notice that Pedal PCB specifies MLCCs in some specific boards, like for the Deflector reverb. I'm guessing this has something to do with their properties, as there is enough space for box caps.

 

[Laundryroom David]

OK, cool, and thank you to all three of you. I do notice that Pedal PCB specifies MLCCs in some specific boards, like for the Deflector reverb. I'm guessing this has something to do with their properties, as there is enough space for box caps.

Correct. There’s a handy video on YouTube about cap properties (I’ll try to find it and post a link). But I haven’t found vast audible differences between a 100 nF mlcc and 100nF chiclet and 100nF polyester box cap for example.

 

[Feral Feline]

It still pays to check the Data Sheet of whatever you're ordering. For example...

I ordered some 220nF box-film caps from Tayda and some 1µF box-film caps as well.


The 220n caps are BIGGER than the the 1µ even though they're less than 1/4 the capacitance.

In fact, those damn 220n caps are about as big as my 2µ2 box-film caps... which brings me to another gripe...


[WHINGE]
I hate when a layout has a tiny circular silk-screen for a 1µ electrolytic that's in the audio-path with no room for a 1µ box-film whatsoever.
If it's the audio path, why would anyone go for electrolytic (unless trying to mojo a Muff and get the ol'school Muff noise floor... )
[/WHINGE]

 

[jimilee]

It still pays to check the Data Sheet of whatever you're ordering. For example...

I ordered some 220nF box-film caps from Tayda and some 1µF box-film caps as well.


The 220n caps are BIGGER than the the 1µ even though they're less than 1/4 the capacitance.

In fact, those damn 220n caps are about as big as my 2µ2 box-film caps... which brings me to another gripe...


[WHINGE]
I hate when a layout has a tiny circular silk-screen for a 1µ electrolytic that's in the audio-path with no room for a 1µ box-film whatsoever.
If it's the audio path, why would anyone go for electrolytic (unless trying to mojo a Muff and get the ol'school Muff noise floor... )
[/WHINGE]

While I totally agree, I have yet to hear a difference.

 

[comradehoser]

It still pays to check the Data Sheet of whatever you're ordering. For example...

I ordered some 220nF box-film caps from Tayda and some 1µF box-film caps as well.


The 220n caps are BIGGER than the the 1µ even though they're less than 1/4 the capacitance.

In fact, those damn 220n caps are about as big as my 2µ2 box-film caps... which brings me to another gripe...


[WHINGE]
I hate when a layout has a tiny circular silk-screen for a 1µ electrolytic that's in the audio-path with no room for a 1µ box-film whatsoever.
If it's the audio path, why would anyone go for electrolytic (unless trying to mojo a Muff and get the ol'school Muff noise floor... )
[/WHINGE]

Are the 220n high-voltage caps (like 400v or something)?

Ah, so electrolytics are noisier and usually on the power side of things, I take it.

 

[spi]

I got some big 220n ones too. I found homes for them on some PCBs where there was enough clearance to use them.

 

[Feral Feline]

Memory is one of the...

... what was I saying..
?

While I totally agree, I have yet to hear a difference.

Good to know. I've never A/B'd them.
I suppose going for a crystal clean boost you might? Vs a Muff... My ears are not "golden" like some of my friends' ears...

Are the 220n high-voltage caps (like 400v or something)?

Ah, so electrolytics are noisier and usually on the power side of things, I take it.

Ahh yeah, about that, good call, so I checked them out.

Turns out they're both rated for 100v and the 1 µ are in fact slightly bigger than the 220n, but these 220n are about double the size of what I've always had from Tayda before.

 

[jimilee]

Memory is one of the...

... what was I saying..
?





Good to know. I've never A/B'd them.
I suppose going for a crystal clean boost you might? Vs a Muff... My ears are not "golden" like some of my friends' ears...




Ahh yeah, about that, good call, so I checked them out.

Turns out they're both rated for 100v and the 1 µ are in fact slightly bigger than the 220n, but these 220n are about double the size of what I've always had from Tayda before.

Nope, you won’t hear the difference then either.