Mean Green Metal Machine led's?

The original had 3mm Red Diffused, Vf around 1.8V.

Like @equinox, I just used the standard 3mm red from Tayda.
Yeah, I just used these from Tayda, Red Diffused, 3mm, Forward voltage@IF=20mA: 2.0-2.2V, Luminous intensity(MCD): 4,000 - 6,000 - https://www.taydaelectronics.com/leds/round-leds/3mm-leds/led-3mm-red.html

I'd like to see the schematic and compare it to the original TS-9 and see what exactly was done.

If the original had ~ 1.8V Vf, here are a couple at Mouser. The Lite-On is the cheapest at $0.41 USD.

https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/VCC/VAOL-3MAE2?qs=io7aH2hdVh6UJW4IWVOfMg==
https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Lite-On/LTL-4261NR?qs=zx/4D0Lxj7b8EvijfEat1Q==
 
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Tayda here I come! From charts Ive seen 1.7-2 is pretty ballpark. I have some 1.57v if that matters much at all.
 
We'll wait for Buggs to release the official schematic, but I'm going thru the design, and I'm really amazed how close it is to just an ordinary TS9 with the 808-mod and 100R on R14 and 10k on R15 and all pots the same, etc.

What I was expecting was some changes to the clipping circuit...check, but possible changes to the B+ tightening things up and somehow tightening up the bass, at the same time lowering the frequencies for the lower tuning without getting muddy, but no, the B+ looks to be stock!

All that was really changed from the Little Green Scream Machine, is:

1. C1 on the input goes from 22nF to 47nF
2. C4 goes from 47nF to 100nF (funny, I use 220n and 470n)
3. R8 goes from 4k7 to 1k8 (again, I've used 1k5 and 2k2, so 1k8 is right in between)
4. R6 goes from 51k to 33k, again, I lower this
5. ok, this is where is differs...the 1N4148 clippers go to the 3mm LEDs, then pin 3 of the A500k pot gets disconnected from pin 1 of the micro and go thru a pair of opposing 1N4148s with a 220k in parallel....THAT'S IT!!!

It's amazing because, I don't think the pedal sounds anything like the original TS9, with 808 MOD, nor mine!! Funny, just a few changes make such a dramatic different!

Looking forward to the official schematic!

here, I marked up the original.
 

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We'll wait for Buggs to release the official schematic, but I'm going thru the design, and I'm really amazed how close it is to just an ordinary TS9 with the 808-mod and 100R on R14 and 10k on R15 and all pots the same, etc.

What I was expecting was some changes to the clipping circuit...check, but possible changes to the B+ tightening things up and somehow tightening up the bass, at the same time lowering the frequencies for the lower tuning without getting muddy, but no, the B+ looks to be stock!

All that was really changed from the Little Green Scream Machine, is:

1. C1 on the input goes from 22nF to 47nF
2. C4 goes from 47nF to 100nF (funny, I use 220n and 470n)
3. R8 goes from 4k7 to 1k8 (again, I've used 1k5 and 2k2, so 1k8 is right in between)
4. R6 goes from 51k to 33k, again, I lower this
5. ok, this is where is differs...the 1N4148 clippers go to the 3mm LEDs, then pin 3 of the A500k pot gets disconnected from pin 1 of the micro and go thru a pair of opposing 1N4148s with a 220k in parallel....THAT'S IT!!!

It's amazing because, I don't think the pedal sounds anything like the original TS9, with 808 MOD, nor mine!! Funny, just a few changes make such a dramatic different!

Looking forward to the official schematic!

here, I marked up the original.
Interesting design / variation. I can’t even work out have the distortion sounds. Is it tighter and more compressed?
 
We'll wait for Buggs to release the official schematic, but I'm going thru the design, and I'm really amazed how close it is to just an ordinary TS9 with the 808-mod and 100R on R14 and 10k on R15 and all pots the same, etc.

What I was expecting was some changes to the clipping circuit...check, but possible changes to the B+ tightening things up and somehow tightening up the bass, at the same time lowering the frequencies for the lower tuning without getting muddy, but no, the B+ looks to be stock!

All that was really changed from the Little Green Scream Machine, is:

1. C1 on the input goes from 22nF to 47nF
2. C4 goes from 47nF to 100nF (funny, I use 220n and 470n)
3. R8 goes from 4k7 to 1k8 (again, I've used 1k5 and 2k2, so 1k8 is right in between)
4. R6 goes from 51k to 33k, again, I lower this
5. ok, this is where is differs...the 1N4148 clippers go to the 3mm LEDs, then pin 3 of the A500k pot gets disconnected from pin 1 of the micro and go thru a pair of opposing 1N4148s with a 220k in parallel....THAT'S IT!!!

It's amazing because, I don't think the pedal sounds anything like the original TS9, with 808 MOD, nor mine!! Funny, just a few changes make such a dramatic different!

Looking forward to the official schematic!

here, I marked up the original.

Interesting I haven’t seen diodes like that before.

Ive made a lot of modded ts’s and my favorite one has a pot in place of R8 (with a series resistor so I can’t drop it to 0 ohms) and the lower it goes the higher gain the pedal gets (also the low cut frequency goes up but that is somewhat negated if C4 goes up in value).

The LED clippers with a higher forward voltage than typical diodes also mean overall higher volume.

I’ll have to give this one a spin I think.
 
We'll wait for Buggs to release the official schematic, but I'm going thru the design, and I'm really amazed how close it is to just an ordinary TS9 with the 808-mod and 100R on R14 and 10k on R15 and all pots the same, etc.

What I was expecting was some changes to the clipping circuit...check, but possible changes to the B+ tightening things up and somehow tightening up the bass, at the same time lowering the frequencies for the lower tuning without getting muddy, but no, the B+ looks to be stock!

All that was really changed from the Little Green Scream Machine, is:

1. C1 on the input goes from 22nF to 47nF
2. C4 goes from 47nF to 100nF (funny, I use 220n and 470n)
3. R8 goes from 4k7 to 1k8 (again, I've used 1k5 and 2k2, so 1k8 is right in between)
4. R6 goes from 51k to 33k, again, I lower this
5. ok, this is where is differs...the 1N4148 clippers go to the 3mm LEDs, then pin 3 of the A500k pot gets disconnected from pin 1 of the micro and go thru a pair of opposing 1N4148s with a 220k in parallel....THAT'S IT!!!

It's amazing because, I don't think the pedal sounds anything like the original TS9, with 808 MOD, nor mine!! Funny, just a few changes make such a dramatic different!

Looking forward to the official schematic!

here, I marked up the original.
I made a LTSpice model based on your schematic compared a TS808, The text above each picture explains what you are seeing.
Stock TS808 gain sweep, tone at noon, volume cranked.
unknown.png

Your schematic gain sweep, tone at noon, volume cranked.
unknown.png

TS808 gain sweep, tone at noon, volume cranked. adjusted to fit in the scale of the other schematic for volume reference.
unknown.png

TS808 unadjusted for scale to show detail
unknown.png

Your schematic gain sweep, tone at noon, volume cranked.
unknown.png


I was curious though, I wasn't convinced the 4148 diodes were doing anything so I removed them.

unknown.png

unknown.png

It appears to mostly affect the minimum gain, and I'm not sure how audible the change would be, but it's interesting.
 
I dug out an old tubescreamer clone (a dwarven hammer that I didn’t really like so I just converted it to stock ts9, and also the rotary switch broke so I hardwired it to the standard low cut).

I added the extra diodes with 220k, and since i used a DPDT switch I also put the clipping diodes on the same switch so I could do switch down > stock ts9, and switch up > the extra diodes and LED clippers.

The volume increase from the LED’s was swamping any difference from the diodes on the gain pot, so I took those out for testing.

The difference seemed minimal, just sounded like a bit more clipping, though I will say I’m not really a “TS into a low gain amp” kinda guy, so maybe it’s lost on me. I only use them to boost high gain amps.
 
It's not so much about the gain as the tone. Hopefully I got the design/schematic correct (we'll see), but the pedal just sounds huge and tight. You get a little fir on the last last bit (9-10) on the drive knob, but again....tight and wide. I also A-B'ed it with one of my modded TS's where I like it. It's different. Mine still keeps the Vintage tone and characteristics, but the Mike's makes it like his amps and I think we all know how they sound! I'm thinking of including both my "Vintage" modded tube screamer and Mike's "Modern" on my pedalboard!

I can see things like the slightly larger input cap opening it up even more and making bigger. I can see adding the LEDs for slightly more gain and sizzle on the extreme end of the drive known. The thing that really I'm not understanding is what causing it to be soo much more "tighter" than a traditional TS9 or my modded unit giving it the more "Modern" tone?!?
 
R8 and C4 1.8k/100n set the low cut a bit higher than stock, 884hz vs the standard 720hz of the 4.7k/47n. Maybe larger input cap plus more low cut to compensate is what is doing it for you.
 
Just one more thing on the LEDs from Tayda I used on this....as I said, datasheet suggests Vf of 2.0-2.2V and this pedal sounded great....but I also used the very same 3mm LEDs in the Fridman clone pedals (BE-OD BE-OD DLX) and A-B'ed them with actual Friedman pedals and the results was...IDENTICAL tone with no asernible difference. Since the DLX adds an active mid control, if you put it on "0", the DLX sounds like the BE-OD without the control and again, the clones sounded identical, so highly recommend the LEDs from Tayda.

If we look at the actual design of the TS-9, and look at the blocked areas, we can see besides the 47n Mike added in the Input Buffer Area, the MOD is exclusively focused on the Clipping Amp section, no changes to the Tone/Volume section, nor Output Buffer section!

https://www.electrosmash.com/images/tech/tube-screamer/tube-screamer-block-diagram.png

Enjoy!
 
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Great to know. When I test for specs regarding Taydas supplies, Im impressed. Just waiting on an order to finish a few pcb's.
 
Great to know. When I test for specs regarding Taydas supplies, Im impressed. Just waiting on an order to finish a few pcb's.
Yeah, their stuff isn't Chinese junk. No wonder China wants Taiwan, so their shit can actually work!! Yeah, good stuff. Use them.
 
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It's not so much about the gain as the tone. Hopefully I got the design/schematic correct (we'll see), but the pedal just sounds huge and tight. You get a little fir on the last last bit (9-10) on the drive knob, but again....tight and wide. I also A-B'ed it with one of my modded TS's where I like it. It's different. Mine still keeps the Vintage tone and characteristics, but the Mike's makes it like his amps and I think we all know how they sound! I'm thinking of including both my "Vintage" modded tube screamer and Mike's "Modern" on my pedalboard!

I can see things like the slightly larger input cap opening it up even more and making bigger. I can see adding the LEDs for slightly more gain and sizzle on the extreme end of the drive known. The thing that really I'm not understanding is what causing it to be soo much more "tighter" than a traditional TS9 or my modded unit giving it the more "Modern" tone?!?
your reports have me intrigued. thanks for sharing this.

ive also built quite a few 808s and 808-adjacent circuits and tried various mods and such, like different R8/C4 combos etc., but when it comes to the NFB clipping diodes, this doesn't just affect the gain, clipping signal level, output etc., but the resulting tone is heavily affected.

we're all pretty familiar with what a symmetrical pair of silicon diodes sound like (914 / 4148) vs. asymmetrical which tend to sound more aggressive and 'bitey'..

comparatively, in my experience (with 808 circuits) subbing 3mm LEDs for silicon diodes (symmetrical pairs) results in a much brighter tone, and i would suspect this has a lot to do with the differing clipping behaviours, not just forward voltage.

eg.
previously, when i tried out a pair of 3mm green LEDs (~2.1v fwd voltage), the tone was significantly brighter and harsher than when i tried a pair of 3mm red LEDs (~1.8v).
could a nominal 0.3v difference in fwd voltage really cause such a dramatic change in tone?

whether this is due to a fwd voltage/brightness relationship or a whole other phenomenon of diode clipping behaviour that i don't quite understand, is beyond me.

have you tried a stock 808/TS9 circuit with a pair of 3mm LEDs (subbed for the silicon diodes) and compared it to this TS808-FM circuit?

i do wonder how different these would be, because what you're describing sounds very much like what i have experienced by subbing 3mm red LEDs into a stock 808 build..
 
Yes, I've tried TS circuits with symmetric and asymmetric clipping as well as silicon and germanium and a combination2 and with LEDs...different combinations.

It'd be interested to know the difference between the Forton TS9 and Fortin 808. The TS9 does have the 808 MODs for increased volume. Seems from the Godlyke description there is an extra set of LEDs somewhere?!??
 
It'd be interested to know the difference between the Forton TS9 and Fortin 808. The TS9 does have the 808 MODs for increased volume. Seems from the Godlyke description there is an extra set of LEDs somewhere?!??
from those godlyke descriptions, the only revealing difference seems to be:

"Secondary Diode Clipping Stage for increased saturation" -> that pair of 4148 diodes+220K on the drive pot?

both would have a pair of red LEDs in the usual place.
 
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