That4305 issues

Keith

Member
Has anyone built the muzzle with the new that4305 adapter board? Ive built 2 and both have the same issue , only gate when the threshold is maxed out , the key isnt working and it cuts off notes.. I have built about 10 to 15 of the regular 4301s and smds without any issues and just cant figure out whats going on.. I will prob it next to see if all passes signal. Thanks in advance
 
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Coop

Member
I just got mine put together and I am in the same boat with it not completely gating and just making the string noise and such a lot quieter when it gates. This is using the retrofit module in front of the amp only. I don't have the key jack wired up so I have a jumper running between the pads.

Guitar > Greengage OD > Front of amp.
 
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PedalPCB

Admin (Robert)
Staff member
I'm going to have to get one of the defective modules back so I can see / hear what you're hearing.

I've just tried two more retrofit modules (randomly selected out of the parts bin), the original hand-assembled prototype, as well as an original THAT4301 IC. All four of these behave exactly the same.

I put a noisy fuzz cranked wide open in front of the gate then dialed up the threshold until the noise disappears. I can still hear string noise if I drag my finger across the strings or gently drag the string across the fretboard like the intro to "Foxey Lady" by Hendrix, but the buzz and noise from the fuzz is gone completely, and there is no reduction in volume when I start actually playing.

The Muzzle doesn't behave like a lot of gates, the Threshold knob controls the threshold where gating happens, but it does also affect how fast/hard the gate closes. It's not a matter of signal dropping below the threshold and the gate instantly clamps to dead silence, that's not exactly how it works. According to the Fortin Zuul owners manual: "The ZUUL's threshold knob also controls the dynamics of the gate circuit."

I'm not saying that you aren't experiencing abnormal behavior, but so far I have been unable to replicate anything out of the ordinary for the circuit.
 

Paradox916

Well-known member
I'm going to have to get one of the defective modules back so I can see / hear what you're hearing.

I've just tried two more retrofit modules (randomly selected out of the parts bin), the original hand-assembled prototype, as well as an original THAT4301 IC. All four of these behave exactly the same.

I put a noisy fuzz cranked wide open in front of the gate then dialed up the threshold until the noise disappears. I can still hear string noise if I drag my finger across the strings or gently drag the string across the fretboard like the intro to "Foxey Lady" by Hendrix, but the buzz and noise from the fuzz is gone completely, and there is no reduction in volume when I start actually playing.

The Muzzle doesn't behave like a lot of gates, the Threshold knob controls the threshold where gating happens, but it does also affect how fast/hard the gate closes. It's not a matter of signal dropping below the threshold and the gate instantly clamps to dead silence, that's not exactly how it works. According to the Fortin Zuul owners manual: "The ZUUL's threshold knob also controls the dynamics of the gate circuit."

I'm not saying that you aren't experiencing abnormal behavior, but so far I have been unable to replicate anything out of the ordinary for the circuit.
can confirm the one module I got operates almost identical to the 4301 and the muzzle/Zuul buy design is atypical in operation in regards to others noise gates… that’s just my limited experience
 
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jjmh83

New member
I wish I knew someone with a Zuul to compare to. For me there's no balance between killing hum and not cutting off pinch harmonics early.

Before this, I was using my Axe FX Ultra (the old old one) with the gate block after my preamps in the loop, set to track the input (like the key input baically), and I never had any issues with it cutting off pinch harmonics or anything.
 

PedalPCB

Admin (Robert)
Staff member
Pay attention to this clip of the original ZUUL at the 2:12 time stamp. You can see when the gate closes the signal is reduced (how much depends on the Threshold control setting), but it doesn't completely clamp to dead silence, you can still hear the guitar.

This is normal behavior.

 

jjmh83

New member
Okay, so I think this might be working (sort of) as expected.

So, first things first, the side chain drastically reduces performance for a noisy setup, at least mine. So first thing to do is get rid of that.

Second thing, I was getting a lot of hum, so I had to turn the threshold knob up to be quite aggressive. Turns out there's an EMI vortex or something on my floor where I had the pedal sitting.

So how I have it set up right now, I have my splitter which goes to my 2 boosts in parallel, a TC Pre and a TS clone I had from years ago, think Deadweald Duality. They run to the same output jack, then goes to my preamp (VHT GP3), then the preamp out runs to the Muzzle, then out to my power amp.

Things I notice when using the key input: unless I turned it up a fair amount, say maybe 30% of the threshold knobs adjustment, it just was not gating. I could hear the hum be reduced that I was getting through my cab, but the LED was not changing color. This was okay, it's better than nothing, but didn't really get me the chuggy staccato like palm muting chugs. If I turned it up a lot more, it was great for that... but nothing else. I attempted to just adjust it to where the red light came on while not playing with the guitar's volume turned up, but it still wasn't performing good at all. All dynamics were gone. I know I've probably said "pinch harmonic" like 20 times in this thread, but it's just kind of a litmus test for me. If I hit one, it would ring out for maybe a second then die.

Removing the key input from it, and turning it up maybe half way so it's gating based on my preamp output now, I can set it with the guitar's strings muted so it's just barely gating, and it doesn't kill dynamics.

Maybe I'm just not a fan of one knob noise gates, I'm not sure as I've never used one before this. Performance is acceptable now, but it seems odd to me that the "key" feature (pun quite intended) reduces performance for me. This is the selling point in what has become the gold standard for noise gates. Like I don't think there's any errors on the board that I've made, it's technically working, it's just not what I was expecting. I have a friend that also got a Muzzle and it's working well for him but I'm guessing my setup is quite a bit noisier. He's going to come over when he gets a chance so we can compare, maybe I'll see if he'll let me bang a key input on his for testing (he has it jumpered at the moment) and see if it's the same deal.
 

tetora 3786

New member
I have zuul and muzzle. I have the same problem. I think the key input is an impedance issue. I plugged the buffered splitter after the guitar to improve sustain and performance. Next, I switched from a single coil(HS-3)guitar to a humbucker guitar and plugged it in. The sustain is better and this seems to be no problem. The slide switch is on the right. As a result, buffered splitters and powerful pickups, especially buffered splitters, seem to be the answer. Because they sell a buffered splitter called Fortin roach. I'm sorry for my poor English, do you understand? I would like to try 4301 instead of 4305 with zuul. I wish I could get good results with any guitar, without a buffered splitter.
 
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