Tone Vendor/Bender MK1... Some Observations

danfrank

Well-known member
Hi everyone. I ordered a Tone Vendor MK1 board a bit ago. I've made most of the fuzz box types in the past except for this one. I was happy to see that PedalPCB offered a board for the MK1. I've read most everything I could find on the internet about the MK1 and the data and opinions about the MK1 are all over the place. So, what is good data that works for building the MK1 and what is hogwash??? Lol!
Well, I built mine and here's a few observations that I've made... Hopefully this will help other builders:

I found that Q1 works best if it has a gain of around 55-70, it also needs to be "leaky", like around 200ua. This is because the leakage is what biases Q1. A higher leakage might work better but the higher the leakage in a transistor, generally the higher the noise. Transistor noise is critical with Q1, noisy Q1 = noisy circuit.

I found that a low leakage transistor works well for Q2, and what worked for me was one with a gain of around 100-110. I still need to try lower and higher gains for Q2 to see what that does to the circuit.

Q3 also needs to be leaky, I found a leakage of about 100-150ua works ok. I like a lowish gain also, like around 80-100. The higher gain Q3 is, the less range the attack knob has. In other words, the higher the gain of Q3, the less "gating" range is available. As for Q3 leakage, it needs to have some but not too much. The more leakage Q3 has, the lower the voltage will be on the collector of Q3. Most everyone says a Q3c voltage of 8-8.5 is desirable, which makes sense because if Q3c voltage is lower, like in the 7s, Q3 won't gate much, which I found to be true.

Also, a log or audio taper pot would probably be more versital for the attack control, more gating range on the attack knob.
This circuit still needs a lot of time spent to get the correct combination of things so it sounds good. I'd have to say that transistor gain, leakage AND noise are the big three factors determining how the MK1 will sound. A lot of the variance in opinions across the internet may be because of individual taste in sounds, but this is pedal building, so who knows...
Lol!
 
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Ok, I resurrect this necro thread!!! I am the one that created it, so I get to decide when it dies! Bwa ha ha ha!!
All joking aside, when I wrote the above post my MK1 was working and sounding great. At minimum attack, it was all gatey and choppy sounding and at full attack it sounded like a full on fuzz-acopolypse. I didn't use it for a while and when I tried it out again it really sounded crappy! Lol! I don't know if it was a temperature related thing or I was just hallucinating... So, I guess I should say to take the first post with a grain of salt...
But after extensive time manipulating the transistors, changing the B50k Attack pot to A50k, I think I have a winner here!!!
I attached a pic with gains and leakage numbers plus transistor voltages.
The A50k pot is a huge improvement for getting more fuzz range out of this thing. Now I have gatey goodness (which I personally don't really like) to full on fuzz explosion with a twist of the Attack knob.
I have other transistors with similar gains and leakages but they didn't sound that good when plugged into the circuit. The MK1 is a tedious nut to crack! Hopefully the info helps someone making one of these. A big nod to Chuck Bones for his info in the Kilimanjaro thread, that helped A LOT. IMG_20221016_214702_HDR~2.jpg
Yes, this is a drill template I used for a notepad. Jordan Bosstone is next...
One more thing... Hey, PedalPCB dude... When are the Kilimanjaro PCBs coming in?!? I need more fuzz!
 
I had a similar experience. The Attack knob only matteret for about or less than half the range until I swapped for a log/audio pot instead.
I also managed to get other transistors and they made a difference. I put in 3 dpdt switches so I could keep the stock ones and select each individually. I think I put a trimmer inside for biasing that in hindsight maybe should have been a pot on the outside if I keep switching the transistors. But didn't think that far back then.
Glad you got yours working :)
EDIT: I see now we disussed this in a previous thread as well: https://forum.pedalpcb.com/threads/tone-vendor-mki-attack-pot-not-much-effect.8574/post-122319
 
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I have yet to find a set of transistors that I am 100% happy with in mine. The MKI Tonebender has to be one of the pickiest circuits ever…besides the FZ-1…
I managed to get hold of:
Q1: ACY30 hfe 82 leak 210uA
Q2: SFT229 116 and 40uA
Q3: 2N321 82 and 110uA
Values might be tainted with my simple measuring device and lack of knowledge. So leakage might be off. But the names are correct. Especially q2 brings some goodness into the mix.
Will avoid FZ-1
 
Is IS the Maestro Fuzz…the OG. Just as picky with transistors as the MKI…which makes sense, given how the MKI was based on a modded FZ-1…
Aaah.. the golden days when there was actual progress in pedal design..

I bet there are a bunch of old folks in rest homes wondering why in the giddy heck there are people trying to build FZ-1s..
 
I used your original post as guide but like everyone else i ended up doing my own thing and I agree with the pot.

With a B50k I was getting a bit of gated farts and then suddenly fuzz at 9 o'clock.
A50k gave me more range and a gradual onset of sustain.
I also tried A100k, A250k and A500k. The bigger the pot the more gain and output but I went back to A50k because I want to have those gated farts just in case.

My Mk1 is stock except for the 15k resistor on Q3c, which I had to raise to 120k to get the voltage at -8.4V. 150k brings it down to -8V. Can't tell the difference so went back to 120k so as not to stray too much from stock.
I guess my Q3 isn't leaky enough.

I also tried lower values fot the 470k in the voltage divider before Q2. 180k and above just gave too much gain.

Note decay is ok with Attack up to 12, it starts to fart out above that. I like it.

A cool thing about it is it doesn't clean up, it just gates more with the guitar rolled back and Attack up. Very handy to have that flavor.

Definitely my favorite fuzz right now. I'm building this on Turret board. Hopefully I don't burn the trannies in the process.
 
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