Which digital platform?

nichgriff

Member
Hello friends!

I'm sorry if this is repetitive, but I'm torn on which digital platform to begin with for pedals. Daisy seems more powerful than FV-1 but FV-1 seems a bit easier for a beginning, as well as there even being the stereo platform coming soon from PedalPCB. I have programming experience (but it's been a few years) in mostly C++.

Thanks!
 

Dali

Well-known member
My understanding is that FV-1 is almost like Assembly language and way less powerful than Daisy.

Daisy is about 30$ for the chip (20$ for FV-1) and is not sold by PedalPCB but Seeds are always (so far) available while FV-1 are back-order almost monthly...

So I'm not building FV-1 anymore. (but I'm not a coder so I'm dependant of other's work for Daisy).

You can check those repository for a glimpse at Daisy+PedalPCB's Terrarium stuff:

https://github.com/tcpoint/terra



And the future looks good too: https://forum.pedalpcb.com/threads/paludarium-platform-development.4862/
 

untamedfrontier

Well-known member
FV-1 is interesting because it uses Alesis' DSP and is already in a ton of commercial pedals (EQD, JHS, probably 10,000 others)

Daisy is interesting because it's way more powerful and could in theory get you closer to pedals that require a lot more processing power (featuresets that would be similar to something from strymon, chase bliss, meris, etc.)

I've never tried coding anything on FV-1, so I can't provide a review of that, but the daisy stuff has been equal parts frustrating and exhilarating :)
 

bretvh

Member
Yeah, I avoided FV-1 because I really didn't want to code in Assembly. I'm a programmer by day, and while I have not really done C++ before, a lot of the languages I use make use of C syntax, so I felt like Daisy seemed like a better fit, and easier to wrap my head around. And yes, it is super powerful. I have a patch I have been working on that uses a spacious reverb, two different delay styles, and pitch effects all at once and it seems to keep up and maintain audio quality on polyphonic sources very well with very little latency or glitching. And I am 100% sure my code is not optimal and could be better structured to get even better performance results. That said, there are some challenges that exist, such as the dreaded 1kHz whine that people have been battling, and the time and patience needed to get debugging set up. That said, I think this platform has huge potential and plan to keep working with it.
 

manysounds

New member
Yeah, I avoided FV-1 because I really didn't want to code in Assembly. I'm a programmer by day, and while I have not really done C++ before, a lot of the languages I use make use of C syntax, so I felt like Daisy seemed like a better fit, and easier to wrap my head around. And yes, it is super powerful. I have a patch I have been working on that uses a spacious reverb, two different delay styles, and pitch effects all at once and it seems to keep up and maintain audio quality on polyphonic sources very well with very little latency or glitching. And I am 100% sure my code is not optimal and could be better structured to get even better performance results. That said, there are some challenges that exist, such as the dreaded 1kHz whine that people have been battling, and the time and patience needed to get debugging set up. That said, I think this platform has huge potential and plan to keep working with it.
To be clear, almost every instance of "whine" noise has been caused by ground loops, and almost all of those due to powering from USB.
 
To be clear, almost every instance of "whine" noise has been caused by ground loops, and almost all of those due to powering from USB.
@manysounds I am not sure that is true. There has been a lot of talk on the Electro-Smith Daisy & Forum about the 1kHz whine and I think the consensus is the whine is due to the processor jerking the ground/9V around when processing spikes.
 

tele_player

New member
If I'm not mistaken, there has been no official comment from ElectroSmith about the 1Khz whine. To me, this doesn't inspire confidence.
 

tele_player

New member
I have other boards (Teensy, Axoloti, Akso) which don't have this problem. In my opinion, the Seed should have been designed in a way that doesn't require external fixes.

And it should still be noted, that ElectroSmith has been silent on the issue. No denials, and no suggestions. They're leaving it to users to guess at cause and solution.
 
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PedalPCB

Administrator
Staff member
The Petal uses an isolator and still has the whine. I've tested mine with the included power supply and a 1SPOT, nothing connnected to the USB port and no other effects in the signal chain.

I believe @sonic_explorer has also experimented with the same isolator without much success.


I've discussed the whine with one of the guys from ElectroSmith who seems to be under the impression that the isolator fixed the problem. I've also sent them a couple Terrarium boards to play around with.

My impression is that at the moment most of the focus is on synth development rather than guitar effects, but I don't think they're ignoring the issue.


I'm all for modifying the ground planes of the Terrarium to see if it makes any difference, but I don't expect it to be a magic fix.
 
I believe @sonic_explorer has also experimented with the same isolator without much success.
The Petal isolator only isolates the positive voltage going to the opamps (the ground is not isolated at all). I believe I was able to implement a similar isolating strategy on the Terrarium by sticking an isolator (the same one Elector-smith specs in the Petal schematic) off board between the +5V from the L7805 and the voltage going to the opamps. I tried to be careful about setting it up, but my implementation did not help the whine. I have also tried to get the isolator to kill the whine on a breadboard with no luck.

My faith in the isolator is pretty shaky after hearing @PedalPCB saying his official Petal still exhibits the whine though.

The 1kHz whine seems like it can be minimized/eliminated with a carefully thought out program, but I am still hoping hardware adjustments can be made too so the bar to programming can be as low as possible and still result in good sounds.
 
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