Some extra choices about noise gate Muzzle kit and how to inject signal into "key" entree.

[guitarbruno76]

Hi there,
First I read this thread : https://forum.pedalpcb.com/threads/adding-sidechain-key-input-to-noise-gate.8536/

But I need some further elements before ordering the Muzzle kit in Musikding , Germany, who I've made pedals kits with great happiness.

My questions are:

1) May I use my first in chain wah pedal (Mowah Cry Baby mod) to create a direct extra output with a phone jack to go into "key" of the Muzzle noise gate
and using the "in / out" of the Muzzle to the loop "send/return" of my amp Mesa Boogie?

2) May I use the phone output always free from my multi fx Nux Cerberus to go into "key" of the Muzzle kit and idem, using the "in / out" of the Muzzle to the loop "send/return" of my amp Mesa Boogie?

If I need another device to create a buffered clean signal ( when reading link above from "fractal33" ) like extra output Boss tuner or whatever, it could be better to buy for instance Boss NS2, more expensive , but more simple to use....

I let you consider my questions and with all my thanks !

Regards

Bruno

 

[mdc]

Using both jacks for the sidechain passthrough should eliminate any need to split the signal at the source.

Go from your guitar to the sidechain in, then from sidechain out to the rest of your pedals.

Use the in and out (top jacks) to place the gate wherever you'd like - somewhere on your pedalboard before the amp, before delay/reverb in your amp's FX loop, whatever works best for you.

If you have a wah first in your signal chain, you might want to try putting the Muzzle before and after it to see if one works better than the other.

 

[guitarbruno76]

That's a nice answer , mdc , thx!

I don't want to exaggerate , but to be more clear, here is my chain pedals and Multi FX

Guitar => Wah=>Comp=>Simu Acoustic=>OD (KCentaur)=>OD(TSlike)=>OD(FriedmanBEODlike)=>NUx Cerberus ((reverb on loop)=> Amp

So you mean, with the Muzzle NG?

Guitar => Muzzle SChain in/out=> Muzzle in/out=> Wah=>Comp=>Simu Acoustic=>OD (KCentaur)=>OD(TSlike)=>OD(FriedmanBEODlike)=>NUx Cerberus ((reverb on loop)=> Amp

Or?

Guitar =>Muzzle SChain in/out=> Wah=>Comp=>Simu Acoustic=>OD (KCentaur)=>OD(TSlike)=>OD(FriedmanBEODlike)=>NUx Cerberus ((reverb on loop)=> Amp (Muzzle in/out in FX loop)

Thx a lot.

 

[mdc]

This:
Guitar =>Muzzle SChain in/out=> Wah=>Comp=>Simu Acoustic=>OD (KCentaur)=>OD(TSlike)=>OD(FriedmanBEODlike)=>NUx Cerberus ((reverb on loop)=> Amp (Muzzle in/out in FX loop)

But I'd suggest making one change:
Guitar =>Muzzle SChain in/out=> Wah=>Comp=>Simu Acoustic=>OD (KCentaur)=>OD(TSlike)=>OD(FriedmanBEODlike)=>Amp

AMP FX LOOP: (Muzzle in/out —> NUx Cerberus ((reverb on loop)

Only because if the gate is *after* the reverb but being keyed off of the dry guitar signal, when the gate closes it will cut off your reverb tails.

And you may need to swap the order of the wah and the muzzle sidechain i/o in case there's any impedance weirdness and your wah starts sounding off.

 

[guitarbruno76]

Roger that!

Thx a lot.

So this kit can be enough and interesting ! Let's order it!

 

[Paradox916]

If your fx loop is serial the gate will work well in the loop if it’s a parallel fx loop (like some Mesa have) the gate might not work as well in the loop YMMV.

 

[mdc]

^^^ good call - I didn't realise Mesas had parallel loops, that's a cool feature for sure.

 

[guitarbruno76]

Thx Paradox916 for the info.

Serial vs. parallel effects loop (FX loop)

What is an effects loop? Guitar amps used to have no effect loops (FX loops), so all effects were connected before the input of the guitar amp. In the 1980

support.bluguitar.com

I own a Mesa boogie Mark 3 , it seems to be parallel , seeing the level knob at the rear panel beside in/out FX loop to adjust level, if not , serial version....

Edit : confusion! The adjustment knob works with direct output , not FX loop , do I need to go further info to confirmation of serial or // ?....

Edit 2 : reading the schematics , the effect loop appears like serial version.

 

[Paradox916]

I know the the rectifiers from the 90s and early 00 had parallel fx loops but I think all the Marks were serial/series (don’t quote me on that I may be wrong.)

 

[guitarbruno76]

See above, my Edit 2

 

[guitarbruno76]

Hi ,

Giving some news, I've received the Muzzle kit , nice project to mount but...it doesn't work

After verifying with audio probe, the reason is the IC That 4305 Dip 20, I've installed it "back to belly" , obviously I attempted to reverse it, but the IC is spoiled, I guess some electrical tension at bad place and it's done!

The other mistake I've done, is to solder the 20 pins on the IC PCB !!!

I've ordered another one but nowhere I find some exact way to mount it with right direction on the basement , although in this link , I see that no soldering is needed, if I understand so clearly ...

THAT4301 RetroFit Module - PedalPCB.com

Dynamics Processor

www.pedalpcb.com

Quote:

• Simple installation using pinheaders into original through-hole DIP-20 footprint "

Thx a lot to give me some explanations

Regards

Bruno

 

[guitarbruno76]

But I'd suggest making one change:
Guitar =>Muzzle SChain in/out=> Wah=>Comp=>Simu Acoustic=>OD (KCentaur)=>OD(TSlike)=>OD(FriedmanBEODlike)=>Amp

AMP FX LOOP: (Muzzle in/out —> NUx Cerberus ((reverb on loop)

Hi mdc,

My Muzzle pedal works now, after replacing LT1054 (IC1) !
Well , this way to plug the Muzzle like you advised doesn't work at all with my Mesa Boogie Mark 3 !
The pedal has no reaction so I've choosen the way "4 cables without FX loop" like the Fortin Zuul+

ZUUL®+

Within the modern guitar community, the Fortin Zuul has long been the industry standard for noise gate technology.

fortinamps.com

So the pedal chain is:

Guitar =>Muzzle SChain in/out=> Wah=>Comp=>OD (KCentaur)=>OD(TSlike)=>OD(FriedmanBEODlike)=> In/ out "drive part " Cerberus => In / out Muzzle => Reverb => In/ out "mod part" Cerberus => Amp ( I had to put out "simu acoustic" , no too much place on pedal board)

And it seems to work but ... I've got some doubt, I've tried at home with my JTC attenuator ( I always use it !) and it doesn't remove all the buzz , if I switch on the OD "Friedman like" , it occurs more buzz, but less than switching off the Muzzle.
When I remove the Nux Cerberus of the circuit, it works pretty fine, not perfectly though... I think this Nux thingy is a pain to use with noise gate...
So on saturday, I will rehearse with band mates, I'll appreciate it with more volume!