Aion TS50b mods--making it clankier

C

comradehoser

Well-known member
Having built the Aion TS50b, I was pretty dang underwhelmed with the circuit. Not a lot of punch, not a lot of dirt, kinda tepid and limp. Jesus Lizard? More like Buddha Newt.

I realize some bass amps are like this.

I rechecked the refdes and all and all, as well as crossreferenced to the Traynor schematic, and it looks to be a 1:1 copy of a Traynor TS50b head, minus footswitch circuitry.
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Original courtesy of our very own basstification guy, Feral Feline (Talkbass version)

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2n5245 looks to be omitted in the aion schematic--does it have a functional impact on the audio signal in the circuit, or is just for the footswitch?

But what could I do to get it more clanky and raucous? The spec is for 2n3906, so I don't think all of the usual Chuck D. Bones cautions about nesting JFet HfEs and all and such apply like for the (right? right?). Luckily I socketed the transistors, so any ideas? I already replaced them all with a new set of 2n3906, no diff. Just go for higher gain transistors and see what all happens? Maybe a higher gain Q1 (currently MPSA18)? A new TL071 or something spicier, maybe?

If there's no easy advice, maybe I'll go hunt up a Rusty Box schematic or wait until Robert finishes the Okko Motor whatever tracing. Or maybe just breadboard the dang thang. But I have a lot of that in my future with a big batch of PTP Chuck D Bones circuits.
 

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comradehoser said:
This is more what I signed up for:
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looks to me that the gain knob is turned up to 11 o'clock on the SVT, a nice $2000 amplifier head. Any circuit would sound great with that thing...
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The rusty box is just acting like a booster in this video. He's not trying to emulate the Traynor sound at all.
Maybe you can try to connect your TS-50B in the preamp section of your bass amp, add some gain on the amp, and you'll get closer to the sound you want ?

There's a good chance that what we mostly hear is the SVT in there, the Ampeg sound. To be able to listen to the circuit, it should be bypassing the SVT preamp.
If the demo was intended to let us hear the rusty box circuit, the signal chain is wrong and they're kind of missing the point in my opinion.

In the sound sample i posted, the TS-50B was plugged directly into a Boss RC-3 loop station, which is the recording device. No extra pre-amp, no softwares messing with the original sound.

An alternate way to get more dirt could be to boost the TS-50B with another circuit in front of it.
A simple volume boost will do the trick.

There are also a few circuits designed to emulate an SVT.
PPCB Basstortr, GuitarPCB Bass Overdriver, etc.

Tech21 SansAmp Bass VT is the closest we can get to that sound with a stompbox, in my experience.
So TS-50B into Tech21 VT, and you should pretty much nail that sound.
 
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I hear you and understand all the helpful things y'all are saying.

Signal chain is bass>pedal>Sunn Sonaro>Sunn 2x15 cab

My TS-50b build does not sound like the videos I've heard of the actual amp nor the rusty box. Both are actually more comparable to each other and have much more gain and dirt on tap than what I hear on my TS-50b build and Eh La Bas Ma's. Here is another one with DI starting at 2:16, which sounds fairly comparable to the first demo I posted, so I don't believe it is the SVT that is bringing the dirt. The guy from the second vid actually says when he runs it through an SVT, it tames the dirt (in the second part of the video).


My build doesn't have anywhere near that amount of dirt/clipping. In order to get anything to speak of, I have to dime everything and flip the boost switch. So either there is something wrong with my build, the 2n3906s are not the way to go, or the decision to leave off that 2N5245 is crucially affecting something in the circuit.
 
comradehoser said:
I hear you and understand all the helpful things y'all are saying.

Signal chain is bass>pedal>Sunn Sonaro>Sunn 2x15 cab

My TS-50b build does not sound like the videos I've heard of the actual amp nor the rusty box. Both are actually more comparable to each other and have much more gain and dirt on tap than what I hear on my TS-50b build and Eh La Bas Ma's. Here is another one with DI starting at 2:16, which sounds fairly comparable to the first demo I posted, so I don't believe it is the SVT that is bringing the dirt. The guy from the second vid actually says when he runs it through an SVT, it tames the dirt (in the second part of the video).


My build doesn't have anywhere near that amount of dirt/clipping. In order to get anything to speak of, I have to dime everything and flip the boost switch. So either there is something wrong with my build, the 2n3906s are not the way to go, or the decision to leave off that 2N5245 is crucially affecting something in the circuit.
Click to expand...
The JFET is used like an SPST switch here. It's either passing signal from drain to source or it's not. It's not going to affect the tone.

I'd double check values, especially of the gain pot and R5.

Edit: I found this demo of an actual Traynor TS-50B:
Sound isn't great but when he dimes the controls around the 7 minute mark it certainly doesn't sound like a gain monster. Doesn't really sound like any of the Rusty Box demos either.
 
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maybe it's because he isn't Canadian enough?

Here you go, eh?


After about 4:00 8:15 and 12:00

That's what I gathered from a discussion with Mr. Aion about the 2N5245. I wonder why Rusty Box left it in, then.

Most likely, it is my build. I rechecked all values and they were correct, but, hey, why not a 12th time?
 
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Oh wait, what did Mr. Aion say? He said yeah, it was part of the switch circuitry that didn't affect the audio signal at all. He definitely is thorough and thoughtful around a circuit, but who knows. Why did Tronographic leave it? Just for the footswitch I guess.
 
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i noticed Brett shows in the video (10:35') how the master volume affects the gain in its own way.

On schematics i dont see anything that could explain it, the volume pot is just before the output jack ?
 
I was referring to Mr Nussbaum, and I indeed missed the Guy LaFleur reference.

While I do appreciate Brett's demo, it's just unwatchable for the fact that you have to ride the volume control throughout it to hear what he's saying and be ready in a heartbeat to turn it right down before his bass blasts your ears and headphones/speakers — vid could definitely use some post-production touches.


Anyway, there's some killer tones throughout the thread, including the less bombasstick settings of the original TS-50B in addition to the more aggressive sonics.



I'd like to be able to get the full range of tones in the thread, so I hope you're able to find the tone you're chasing.
 
lowpitch said:
The JFET is used like an SPST switch here. It's either passing signal from drain to source or it's not. It's not going to affect the tone.

I'd double check values, especially of the gain pot and R5.

Edit: I found this demo of an actual Traynor TS-50B:
Sound isn't great but when he dimes the controls around the 7 minute mark it certainly doesn't sound like a gain monster. Doesn't really sound like any of the Rusty Box demos either.
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Ding ding ding.

Checked everything for the 13th time. Noticed I installed the C18 "OMIT" 10nf capacitor. So, I took the board out and, why not, checked the gain pot, because HAHAHAHA I COULDN'T POSSIBLY HAVE EFFED UP THE GAIN POT!!!!!11!!

So, I effed up the gain pot. Master and Gain pots were reversed. De reversed them, and I have a full range of Guy LaFleur. Quite happy with this grindy little pedal, now!

Feral Feline, he didn't actually say that about Guy LaFleur, I was just doing some CanCon funsies because he's Canadian and you can't hear what he's saying after the first bit.
 
Stoked you remedied the issue! I have and adore a Tronographic Rusty, but definitely want to build this clone sometime too.

@aion I am truly sorry to be That Guy, but: any chance you'd offer a different daughterboard in the future that could facilitate having the boost control as a footswitch? It doesn't look like there's much room with the current one to attempt the mod.
 
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Look at that movement! It's like poetry on ice.

Grammar police moment: Make sure it's Guy LA Fleur, though (translation is Guy The Flower, flower is feminine in French, so it's La Fleur, not Le Fleur)
 
EisengesisFX said:
Stoked you remedied the issue! I have and adore a Tronographic Rusty, but definitely want to build this clone sometime too.

@aion I am truly sorry to be That Guy, but: any chance you'd offer a different daughterboard in the future that could facilitate having the boost control as a footswitch? It doesn't look like there's much room with the current one to attempt the mod.
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That would be nice, but maybe you could kick a long bat switch in a pinch?
 
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