Maxon OD808x (ESM) - I like the tone but it's a lot of gain

Pepo

New member
I built the Extreme Scream Machine pcb, I loved the tone, but the gain is too much. I have built several clones of tubescreamer including the ts808, and reviewing the schematic, I saw that the modifications to transform the ts808 to the od808x are a couple of components.
My understanding of the topology of overdrives is not much, so I need a little help to know what component I could modify to subtract a little gain from the pedal. I was reading the article "the technology of the tubescreamer" from Geofex.com and came to some conclusions (I hope my reasoning is relatively correct). I attached an image of the schematic and marked the differences for discussion.

The input buffer and clipping stage are the same, so the gain increase does not come from modifying C3 (47n) and R6 (4k7) and the frequency is still 720 Hz. Tone and volume control stage has modifications. C5 (100n) should be an RC low pass filter (originally 220n), from the tone pot, there is another RC filter where C6 is also modified (100n). I think these modifications change some of the original frequency of the ts808, having less mid hump and a lot clearer period. Next comes C7 (4n7) in parallel to R11 (1k). Here I don't know what function that capacitor has. Will it have to do with the increase in gain and volume?

The last difference is the output buffer. Here, the 3 components change order. It also changes a value. In ts808 the buffer has 100r and 10k, The TS9 470r and 100k and the OD808X 470r and 10k (a mix of ts808 and ts9) Is this modification to the output buffer responsible for the increase in gain?

Well, those are my doubts. I loved this pedal, but it has a lot of gain even at minimum.


 

Attachments

  • od808x mod gain.png
    od808x mod gain.png
    300 KB · Views: 27
I think the too much gain is a feature, not a bug. Hence the x/extreme designation.
Is too much drive or too much volume?
Too much drive, maybe try a 1M pot for the drive pot, B or C taper. Or increase R7.
 
Im not sure where any extra gain would be coming from over a normal TS. All the caps you point out are part of low pass filters in the tone section so I don't think that is contributing. Like you said the gain stage is the same.
 
The product description says this:

- Extended frequency response improves note definition and clarity
- Increased Output (+5 dB over OD808) for extra Volume Boost
- Harder clipping yields more aggressive, amp-like Distortion

The tone control cap changes would explain the first point. The second point is vol/output rather than gain. +5 is not too much. And the third point specifically mentions different diodes.

Really just turning the knobs down a bit should do it.

 
Last edited:
I think the too much gain is a feature, not a bug. Hence the x/extreme designation.
Is too much drive or too much volume?
Too much drive, maybe try a 1M pot for the drive pot, B or C taper. Or increase R7.
I agree that it is not a mistake, in fact it is a characteristic of the pedal. For me it would be ideal with less gain. (I know it's not the same as a ts808) I'm going to try increasing the pot to 1meg. Thanks

The product description says this:

- Extended frequency response improves note definition and clarity
- Increased Output (+5 dB over OD808) for extra Volume Boost
- Harder clipping yields more aggressive, amp-like Distortion

The tone control cap changes would explain the first point. The second point is vol/output rather than gain. +5 is not too much. And the third point specifically mentions different diodes.

Really just turning the knobs down a bit should do it.


The diodes here are the same as in the ts808 (1n4148), so I think the aggressive drive change does not come from there. I still wonder where the gain increase comes from. Maybe, It's probably the sum of all the changes and not one specific.
 
Changing "drive" to 1M will not give less distortion. It will allow MORE total distortion. I would try changing D1 and D2 to LED's, or going with 2 x 4148 in series, both directions. If that's not enough, ditch the diodes completely.
The caps you point out are part of the filtering, cutting out certain frequencies. Op amps amplify different frequencies differently (usually shown in the datasheets by a slope on a graph) so in the ESM it may be giving more or less 'percieved' gain in certain frequencies.
The changes I suggested will increase volume quite a bit.
If turning down the guitars' volume knob gets you where you want to be, another thing to try would be increasing R2. 10k would probably be a good start. This will, obviously, decrease total volume as well.
 
Isn’t the gain of an op amp with negative feedback increased with resistance? What about changing R7 to something like a 10k? The palisades and dunes which are TS variants use a 22K and 10K in the feedback loop there.
 
Gain is the same for both. Only the EQ curves change. Probably the od808x curves filter less overtones, and that's why you percieve more drive.

You can try shorting the 51k resistor in series to the drive pot. That way you will get lower gain positions in the drive pot.

If you find the final sound to be too harsh, try adding the cap in the EQ opamp feedback loop. If the ts808 original value of 4n7 is cutting too much highs for you, try a lower value.
 
Back
Top