SOLVED Muzzle (Classic) Side Chain

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Mattallica75

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Alrighty, I am closing in on finishing up a Muzzle build (with an enclosure I am particularly proud of) and I am having some issue with the side chain (Decimator G String style build). When I use the side chain I get a high pitched whine when I get into high gain territory (my tone for my bands is very HM-2 reliant). When I just use the key in it functions perfectly. I re-flowed the joints on the side chain out and key in but the whine still persists. I even added an extra cable grounding the key in to the side chain out. Could some of the excess paint that has splattered on the inside of the enclosure when Tayda painted it?

Any and all help would be greatly appreciated. 20240215_155444634_iOS.jpg 20240215_155418823_iOS.jpg 20240215_155502236_iOS.jpg
 
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Mattallica75 said:
Alrighty, I am closing in on finishing up a Muzzle build (with an enclosure I am particularly proud of) and I am having some issue with the side chain (Decimator G String style build). When I use the side chain I get a high pitched whine when I get into high gain territory (my tone for my bands is very HM-2 reliant). When I just use the key in it functions perfectly. I re-flowed the joints on the side chain out and key in but the whine still persists. I even added an extra cable grounding the key in to the side chain out. Could some of the excess paint that has splattered on the inside of the enclosure when Tayda painted it?

Any and all help would be greatly appreciated.View attachment 68533View attachment 68534View attachment 68535
Click to expand...
Wouldn’t hurt to sand around where the pots/jacks connect to the chassis inside the enclosure. Would be a quick way to eliminate that as an issue
 
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Giorfida said:
Wouldn’t hurt to sand around where the pots/jacks connect to the chassis inside the enclosure. Would be a quick way to eliminate that as an issue
Click to expand...
Just did that and it hasn't seemed to help.
Interestingly enough the whine only happens when I connect my from the side chain out to the gate input. When I pass signal directly through the side chain into my amp (not through the actual gate) there is no noise.
 
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Have you tried running both on batteries? I always keep a couple of 9v battery clip - DC power plug cables on hand for such testing. Completely eliminates any chance of power supply noise or power supply being a source of ground loops
 
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Giorfida said:
Have you tried running both on batteries? I always keep a couple of 9v battery clip - DC power plug cables on hand for such testing. Completely eliminates any chance of power supply noise or power supply being a source of ground loops
Click to expand...
Just tried an isolated power supply, a wall wart, and a battery, problem exists across all 3
 
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Have you tried it with a completely different set up.. ie different amp, guitar ect? Sometimes pedals just do get a long with other pieces of gear. If at that point the issue still persists, you absolutely have an issue with the build itself. This can be a tough build to troubleshoot, it can really test ones knowledge base and skills when running into problems like this on a more complicated circuit. Did you confirm all component values are correct? First visually then with a meter once in a while you run into an out of spec cap, especially electrolytics. And it can be really easy to install a resistor with the wrong multiplier ( like a 47k instead of a 4.7K ect..)
You said it’s operating so we know the signal path is intact, so it’s most likely a wrong or bad component, perhaps a solder bridge, and sometimes even excess off board wiring can cause issues, and lastly ( this is just personal bias) I don’t trust that GPCB breakout boad for some reason.
 
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Paradox916 said:
Have you tried it with a completely different set up.. ie different amp, guitar ect? Sometimes pedals just do get a long with other pieces of gear. If at that point the issue still persists, you absolutely have an issue with the build itself. This can be a tough build to troubleshoot, it can really test ones knowledge base and skills when running into problems like this on a more complicated circuit. Did you confirm all component values are correct? First visually then with a meter once in a while you run into an out of spec cap, especially electrolytics. And it can be really easy to install a resistor with the wrong multiplier ( like a 47k instead of a 4.7K ect..)
You said it’s operating so we know the signal path is intact, so it’s most likely a wrong or bad component, perhaps a solder bridge, and sometimes even excess off board wiring can cause issues, and lastly ( this is just personal bias) I don’t trust that GPCB breakout boad for some reason.
Click to expand...
I’ve tried a few different configurations and am still getting the whine.
I’m going to check the components when i get home from work. If the problem persists once i re-solder the ICs/sockets i’ll probably use an audio probe to see where it comes in to play.
I’ve used the GPCB breakout boards in almost every build I’ve done but i do need to eliminate that from the equation to test the circuit.
Thanks for the help, I’ll circle back once i’ve tried all this.
 
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Sounds like a ground loop issue. I'm honestly not too pleased with how the inputs/outputs of this pedal are handled in PedalPCB's documentation. I assume the reasoning is that not everyone is going to have isolated jacks on hand to build this. Whatever about input/output jacks, I would always, always recommend a sidechain type jack to be isolated from the chassis. The potential for issues is too great.

What I recommend is replacing both sidechain jacks and the output jack with an isolated style jack. Then the key and the key through jacks should have their ground put to the what looks like an extra ground pad inbetween the tip and the switched tip pad, which seems to be there for this exact reason. At least, that's what it looks like in the picture of the board I can see. Just use a multimeter to check for continuity between that pad and other grounds. It looks like the hope is that the regular jacks will get their ground from the contact to the pedal enlosure which is... meh?
 
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Update here.
After checking components de/re soldering ICs and sockets I unfortunately regressed and now the pedal is passing no signal. Upon closer inspection I think I I messed up a couple of the pads on the THAT4301 during the de-soldering, as solder will no longer join with the pads on the IC.

I've ordered a replacement and will see if that solves my problems. Thanks for the help, I'll update teh thread when I get the replacement on the board.
 
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Replacement THAT4301 chip is in place and I am still experiencing an issue.

I've linked a video here that shows the problem.

When the Muzzle is engaged (4 cable method) and I have a lot of gain on the signal i begin to get a whine. That whine disappears when the Muzzle is bypassed. All jacks and the board are grounded to the breakout board. I have verified as many components as I am able to with a multi meter and has replaced any that I was not confident were correct.
 
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