falco_femoralis
Member
Does it matter? I use elecs but see builds with tants occasionally. I make sure to get low profile elecs for double PCB builds. Am I wasting my time?
Tantalums vs Electrolytics
- Thread starter falco_femoralis
- Start date
jessenator
Well-known member
There are pros and cons to each. Price, tolerances …reactions to reverse polarity.
Anymore the hottest topic is more about ethical sourcing of the material and manufacture. From the sounds of it, you're more likely to buy a blood diamond than not.
Based on what I've gleaned, there's nothing wrong with electrolytic caps. There might be some ground gained by using bipolar/nonpolar in applications in the signal path, and using film caps for 1μF (if they fit the footprint), but they're not "bad"
I have still some tantalum caps that I'll use here and there, mostly if I don't have the value on electrolytic on hand, but I don't plan on buying any more of them.
My 2¢
Anymore the hottest topic is more about ethical sourcing of the material and manufacture. From the sounds of it, you're more likely to buy a blood diamond than not.
Based on what I've gleaned, there's nothing wrong with electrolytic caps. There might be some ground gained by using bipolar/nonpolar in applications in the signal path, and using film caps for 1μF (if they fit the footprint), but they're not "bad"
I have still some tantalum caps that I'll use here and there, mostly if I don't have the value on electrolytic on hand, but I don't plan on buying any more of them.
My 2¢
Stickman393
Well-known member
Buy vintage, and, like, the blood is in the past.
Which, like, means that it's old blood. Which is better. Cause it's harder to clean off. The stain has set.
It's the forced labor in the mines that give you that extra bit of toan. Little bits of the souls of slave laborers transfer into the tantalum. And innocent victims of civil wars.
Yup. The world is...well, the world is a broken place.
There's the Responsible Minerals Initiative. Kemet apparently follows that, but God knows if that's actually effective, and how much slips through the cracks.
The Democratic Republic of the Congo is one of the biggest tantalum exporters in the world. They...well, they're a good example of what happens when an economy and political system is predicated largely on extractive industries. There are problems.
Film caps now come in 1uf values with 2.5mm lead spacing. I tend to use those over tants or electros. At least if their height doesn't become a problem.
Tants are impossible to avoid in consumer electronics. Ethical sourcing be damned: your phone is soaked in blood minerals. Computer too.
We're all bastards. Unwitting bastards, but bastards none the less. Bastardry is the water we swim in. We live in it, breathe in it, die in it, and transfer our souls to the never-ending extractive system that typically doesn't result in an awesome guitar toan. Typically.
I dunno. I've taken to buying vintage, due to the aforementioned advantages of old blood. The guy who died mining my tantalum probably would be dead by now anyways, right?
I may be a little cynical. Individual market choice is going to be a matter of personal ethics. It's not going to change systemic problems.
I'll use them only in select locations. Electros are the better choice most of the time. But if you have a spot that is leakage-adverse, they do the job well.
Which, like, means that it's old blood. Which is better. Cause it's harder to clean off. The stain has set.
It's the forced labor in the mines that give you that extra bit of toan. Little bits of the souls of slave laborers transfer into the tantalum. And innocent victims of civil wars.
Yup. The world is...well, the world is a broken place.
There's the Responsible Minerals Initiative. Kemet apparently follows that, but God knows if that's actually effective, and how much slips through the cracks.
The Democratic Republic of the Congo is one of the biggest tantalum exporters in the world. They...well, they're a good example of what happens when an economy and political system is predicated largely on extractive industries. There are problems.
Film caps now come in 1uf values with 2.5mm lead spacing. I tend to use those over tants or electros. At least if their height doesn't become a problem.
Tants are impossible to avoid in consumer electronics. Ethical sourcing be damned: your phone is soaked in blood minerals. Computer too.
We're all bastards. Unwitting bastards, but bastards none the less. Bastardry is the water we swim in. We live in it, breathe in it, die in it, and transfer our souls to the never-ending extractive system that typically doesn't result in an awesome guitar toan. Typically.
I dunno. I've taken to buying vintage, due to the aforementioned advantages of old blood. The guy who died mining my tantalum probably would be dead by now anyways, right?
I may be a little cynical. Individual market choice is going to be a matter of personal ethics. It's not going to change systemic problems.
I'll use them only in select locations. Electros are the better choice most of the time. But if you have a spot that is leakage-adverse, they do the job well.
Stickman393
Well-known member
J-dizzle makes a an infuriatingly valid point.
falco_femoralis
Member
I'm not sure. I built an Aion Blueshift and it spec'd tantalums as well as low profile electrolytics so I would assume there is a difference?
I was researching Electrovibe Mini's and came across one where the builder used tants instead of small elecs so I'm wondering if there is a theoretical difference, morality aside.
I was unaware of the negative impact of producing tants prior to making this thread. That is something that matters to me, but I see them being used and wonder if there is a technical reason for it.
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Stickman393
Well-known member
Oh, there's a difference.
But, many of the same qualities that folks look for in tantalum caps are available in modern Multi Layer Ceramic Capacitors.
Modern MLCCs tend to have a lower ESR as well. Which AFAIK tends to be a desirable trait in the circuits we build.
Granted...what's the range on x7rs these days? Can't say I know off the top of my head.
Every dielectric is going to be different. The primary use case I'd see for tants would be a necessity for a low profile, low leakage, relatively high capacitance cap. MLCCs check those boxes.
The advantage tants have would be in temperature stability. X7Rs are like +/- 15% across -55 to +115C...which is actually pretty damned good. But tants will shift less. Dunno the actual numbers, and in a guitar pedal circuit it shouldn't make much of a difference.
When it comes to audio characteristics? Ask five people, you'll get fifteen opinions.
But, many of the same qualities that folks look for in tantalum caps are available in modern Multi Layer Ceramic Capacitors.
Modern MLCCs tend to have a lower ESR as well. Which AFAIK tends to be a desirable trait in the circuits we build.
Granted...what's the range on x7rs these days? Can't say I know off the top of my head.
Every dielectric is going to be different. The primary use case I'd see for tants would be a necessity for a low profile, low leakage, relatively high capacitance cap. MLCCs check those boxes.
The advantage tants have would be in temperature stability. X7Rs are like +/- 15% across -55 to +115C...which is actually pretty damned good. But tants will shift less. Dunno the actual numbers, and in a guitar pedal circuit it shouldn't make much of a difference.
When it comes to audio characteristics? Ask five people, you'll get fifteen opinions.
jessenator
Well-known member
It's too bad Niobium caps are all SMD, and not quite as widespread. It was a favorite in the vintage computer circle, for replacing old leaking aluminum electrolytic bobbos.
Stickman393
Well-known member
^ never had one fail, but it's true that tants are particularly intolerant to voltage spikes.
Electros will take a few licks and put up their fists, asking if that's all you got.
Tants go to pieces so fast you'll get hit by the shrapnel.
Which gives me a great, albeit expensive, idea for a bomb.
Electros will take a few licks and put up their fists, asking if that's all you got.
Tants go to pieces so fast you'll get hit by the shrapnel.
Which gives me a great, albeit expensive, idea for a bomb.
GAStan
Member
Ever see what happens to a 35v electro with 120vac on it?
Stickman393
Well-known member
Don't threaten me with a good time.
JTEX
Well-known member
Certainly more effective and less expensive than an egg bomb these days, if you're American.
