Buffers - what do they fix/not fix? (specific example)

[mkstewartesq]

If you have some raw TS plugs, grab 2.
Engage all loops and jumper their out and in.
Put one TS in the input of the switcher.
Measure the resistance between each tip.
Then move the output plug to each out jack on the looper and remeasure.
Then move the TS jack to looper out and measure across the looper out and each loops input(return).
If you have a specific part of the loopers circuit that is resistive, this should make it apparent.

Alternatively but not as thorough, just ohm the looper master in and out and engage one loop at a time.
If you find one loop to be an issue, then perform the above on that loop to determine if it's on the send or receive side of that loop.
This is probably a better use of time. Thinking it out as I type...
If you don't have plugs handy, can pop the cover and clip onto the tip connections.
Wouldn't hurt to check capacitance, if your meter has good enough specs to measure that low. I doubt you'll have any in the looper itself but maybe in a cable?
Would be more concerned with your longer cable runs in that regard.
Would be interested in your total system capacitance, end to end.

Hey, first of all, thank you from the bottom of my heart for taking the time to think about this issue and give me good guidance on where to look next.

I started with the second half of your message (checking the resistance at the master input in output as I activated each loop I put a spare TS in each of the master input in output and then jumpered each loop). Activating the loops one by one, the readings always jumped around wildly at first but all eventually settle down to somewhere in the neighborhood of 1.5 ohms measured from the tip of the master input to the tip of the master output. Assuming I followed your instructions correctly, I don’t know if that reading is a good or bad thing. But at least it’s consistent across all of the loops.

Again, thank you, sincerely.

Mike

 

[mdc]

As a side note, if you dislike the more full-frequency sound of a "good" buffer, you could try the cornish version. It has some tone shaping built in.

 

[mkstewartesq]

As a side note, if you dislike the more full-frequency sound of a "good" buffer, you could try the cornish version. It has some tone shaping built in.

Thanks. I’ve been looking at that because some have described it as being a bit “musical” (others, of course describe it in very derogatory terms - such is life )

But that leads to my next big buffer newbie question(s) - is it wise to put more than one buffer in a chain (aside from the traditional “one at the very beginning and one at the very end”)? How many buffers is too many? If you have multiple buffers in a chain, do they just fight it out to the death, may the best buffer win? I ask because there is a buffer in my General Tso (front of the chain, about two loops ahead of where this new switcher would go) and I’ve been curious as to whether adding another buffer in the loop for this switcher would be a good or a bad thing if the Tso is an “Always-On” effect.

Thanks,

Mike

 

[mdc]

The plumbing metaphor is maybe useful here? Think of the buffer as a valve that's regulating the flow of water from one pipe to the next. You want to have control over how much water is entering pipe A and provide ample flow from pipe A to pipe B.

In an ideal world you just have a straight pipe with water flowing from the source to wherever it's going with no interruption.

But if you don't know what's coming or where it's going, best practice is generally to limit the input and open up the output. So you get a predictable stream of water at a high pressure coming in, and you're pumping as much water as you can out so that whatever valve/pipe is next will be adequately supplied.

If the valves or buffers are doing their job and not getting in the way of anything, there's no harm in putting a dozen of them in a row (see: boss pedals). You just have a lot of redundancy.

 

[mkstewartesq]

The plumbing metaphor is maybe useful here? Think of the buffer as a valve that's regulating the flow of water from one pipe to the next. You want to have control over how much water is entering pipe A and provide ample flow from pipe A to pipe B.

In an ideal world you just have a straight pipe with water flowing from the source to wherever it's going with no interruption.

But if you don't know what's coming or where it's going, best practice is generally to limit the input and open up the output. So you get a predictable stream of water at a high pressure coming in, and you're pumping as much water as you can out so that whatever valve/pipe is next will be adequately supplied.

If the valves or buffers are doing their job and not getting in the way of anything, there's no harm in putting a dozen of them in a row (see: boss pedals). You just have a lot of redundancy.

Wonderful explanation, thank you so much!

Mike

 

[HamishR]

My pedalboard is so minimal that I still prefer not to use a buffer. Every time I have something like a Boss pedal in there my signal loses punch and detail. I really don't like whatever Boss do with their buffers. I compare the sound of my guitar straight into the amp with the sound going through my board with no FX on and still it sounds better with no buffer.

But recently I got a new Peterson Mini-Strobotuner. I have tried it with and without its buffer and find it really difficult to tell which is which. So it seems it has an excellent buffer.

 

[mkstewartesq]

My pedalboard is so minimal that I still prefer not to use a buffer. Every time I have something like a Boss pedal in there my signal loses punch and detail. I really don't like whatever Boss do with their buffers. I compare the sound of my guitar straight into the amp with the sound going through my board with no FX on and still it sounds better with no buffer.

But recently I got a new Peterson Mini-Strobotuner. I have tried it with and without its buffer and find it really difficult to tell which is which. So it seems it has an excellent buffer.

My normal switcher sounds great and I don’t believe it has any buffers. However, when I turn on the new switcher that I have hooked into one of the loops on the main switcher, you can definitely tell that the sound is more dull when strumming chords (it’s not nearly as noticeable when just playing single notes). So obviously sending the signal through seven true bypass 3PDTs has an effect.

I actually prefer the sound of the Cornish buffers that I built and I am installing in the new switcher over the sound of the buffer built into my General Tso - but since that compressor is going to be an always on effect, I’m just gonna have to learn to manage it. At least in my set up, the Tso buffer is fairly transparent but does thin the sound a TEENY bit. The Cornish buffers seem to bring back a little bit more of the body that might be slightly attenuated by the Tso buffer.

M

 

[mkstewartesq]

Thanks to everyone for your help in this thread.

Just updating to add that I built and installed an input buffer and an output buffer – both Cornish buffers, each controlled by a separate DPDT. Everything sounds great now.

For whatever reason, even though they are the exact same in every respect as far as I can tell, the second one I built sounded better than the first, especially when set up as the output buffer, so I think I’ll use that one most.

Mike