Bypassable Clean Blend

[nate433]

I have a friend who wants a Big Muff with a clean blend. This hitch is he wants the clean blend on a footswitch so that he can toggle it off mid song and get the full blown fuzz.

Would it be as simple as a adding a switch in the blend path like this to disconnect it (Obsidious for example):



Or would there be more to consider?
Would the best way be to add a buffer at the beginner and end like this the above schematic? I've only used the Buff N Blend daughterboards in the past when adding a blend, so this is all new to me but it feels possible.

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


Alternatively he has a weirder idea:
1. There's a toggle that either combines the clean and fuzz signal into one output or splits them so that fuzz is in one and clean is in the other.
2. A footswitch that can turn off the clean, but when it does the fuzz is sent out to both outputs

Now this one I have no idea if that is even remotely possible but here are some drawings he gave



Thanks!

 

[jwin615]

Assuming you're talk about an opamp muff, it won't be that simple because the first and last gain stages are inverting. If you pull off the first opamp, you'll be out of phase mixing in after the 3rd gain stage. For all our fuzz settings, this won't be as big of an issue but if the point is to stack a kinda dirty but not all out fuzz muff into another drive, you'll definitely notice it.
Better off using an independent split and blend.

On a Pi, you could try branching off the collector of Q1 and blending back into the base of Q4. Not sure how good it will sound but it will be in phase

 

[nate433]

Assuming you're talk about an opamp muff, it won't be that simple because the first and last gain stages are inverting. If you pull off the first opamp, you'll be out of phase mixing in after the 3rd gain stage. For all our fuzz settings, this won't be as big of an issue but if the point is to stack a kinda dirty but not all out fuzz muff into another drive, you'll definitely notice it.
Better off using an independent split and blend.

On a Pi, you could try branching off the collector of Q1 and blending back into the base of Q4. Not sure how good it will sound but it will be in phase

It's a tone wicker BMP, so shouldn't have to worry about phase right?

 

[jwin615]

Yes. Every transistor gain stage inverts phase, at least in the muff(there are different types of transistor gain stages that are too much to cover here).
You can't go input to output for a multitude of reasons. Well, you can, but it won't be great and will result in weird loading issues.
But, you can go post Q1 and pre Q4 as indicated above. You can try it with some clips on the transistor legs, assuming it's through hole. That leaves 2 gain stages between your "switch" but since each inverts phase, the culmination is in phase.

Again. This isn't how I would go a out this, but it's the cheap and easy way.
I have to ask. What is the end result your friend is looking for? What's the ideal destination? 'cause there's a hundred ways to Detroit...

 

[JTEX]

Is there such thing as a "clean blend" pedal? Like, its sole purpose would be to add the option of a clean blend to some other pedal that lacks it? With a polarity reverse option, of course, to accommodate all situations?

 

[nate433]

Is there such thing as a "clean blend" pedal? Like, its sole purpose would be to add the option of a clean blend to some other pedal that lacks it? With a polarity reverse option, of course, to accommodate all situations?

The OBNE Signal Blender, kinda?

 

[Feral Feline]

Is there such thing as a "clean blend" pedal? Like, its sole purpose would be to add the option of a clean blend to some other pedal that lacks it? With a polarity reverse option, of course, to accommodate all situations?

Make it so!

There's the SplitnBlend / Buffnblend
the Fuzz Dog Fat-Ass Blooper thing
ROG's op-amp based clean blend
Schalltechnic
and
Iron Ether's Divaricator...
VFE Klein
EHX's 3-channel splitter mixer...
Saturn Works
etc
...
Yeah, there's a lot out there, various levels of complexity and features, but yeah, they exist.

 

[JTEX]

Basically mixers in a pedal format. OK, I should stop trying to come up with new stuff. Every single time, somebody beat me to it. Except for that anti-flashlight. You shine it on something and it goes dark. Problem is, the prototype isn't working yet

 

[Feral Feline]

Basically mixers in a pedal format. OK, I should stop trying to come up with new stuff. Every single time, somebody beat me to it. Except for that anti-flashlight. You shine it on something and it goes dark. Problem is, the prototype isn't working yet

I've been working on a solar-powered flashlight.
So far it works great during the day, but...
I'm having trouble getting it to light up at night.




Why don't you build a SIMPLE blend pedal. With the polarity switch. No other bells and whistles, 'cause ALL the others seem to have extra features added, like the Fuzz Dog take on Moosapotamus' Brass Blender (has a Muff tone stack on a BrassMaster without the fuZz).

I'm sure it would be another great no-seller for you.
No aspersions cast upon you or what you make, rather quite the opposite — that people don't know good schtuff when it's stuffed under their very nose.

 

[JTEX]

I might get (back) into pedals once I retire, which should be in about 586 days. IF, of course, pedals are still a thing by then... But, I mean, why would the pedal market need yet another maker? There's already 100 variations of every pedal known to man, and some of them cost peanuts and work as well as their pricier inspirations. I guess I could use a pep talk...

Oh, and then there's the second hand market. I see Metal Zones regularly for C$50 in the local classifieds. If I were to start building pedals now, as opposed to way back when I was a broke teenager in communist Romania, I... wouldn't. I'd just buy them pre-made.

 

[Aentons]

Basically mixers in a pedal format. OK, I should stop trying to come up with new stuff. Every single time, somebody beat me to it. Except for that anti-flashlight. You shine it on something and it goes dark. Problem is, the prototype isn't working yet

I have yet to see a standalone mixer/blend pedal that only adds clean blend to an existing pedal's sound. They all bypass to clean rather than effect only. It seems opposite to me.

 

[Feral Feline]

I have a friend who wants a Big Muff with a clean blend. This hitch is he wants the clean blend on a footswitch so that he can toggle it off mid song and get the full blown fuzz.

Would it be as simple as a adding a switch in the blend path like this to disconnect it (Obsidious for example):

View attachment 91041

Or would there be more to consider?
Would the best way be to add a buffer at the beginner and end like this the above schematic? I've only used the Buff N Blend daughterboards in the past when adding a blend, so this is all new to me but it feels possible.

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


Alternatively he has a weirder idea:
1. There's a toggle that either combines the clean and fuzz signal into one output or splits them so that fuzz is in one and clean is in the other.
2. A footswitch that can turn off the clean, but when it does the fuzz is sent out to both outputs

Now this one I have no idea if that is even remotely possible but here are some drawings he gave

View attachment 91046 View attachment 91047

Thanks!

I'm not sure I fully get the friend's notebook illustrations... but, maybe this gets you close to the first part of your post...


What I would do...

JMK Panner.
This splits the signal in two. One channel stays clean/dry, the other channel goes to the effect of choice — in this case, a Muff, but it could be any circuit and even more versatile, this whole thing could be built as a looper that allows any pedal to go into its loop. That way if your friend falls out with the Muff and favours a Fuzz Face, so be it — whatever. Stick a whole chain — Chorus pedal > tremolo > reverb — in the loop.

The master bypass turns on the JMK Panner and whatever is in the loop (or chosen circuit) is already on. Interrupt the clean signal after the split and you've got what you described in your Obsidious example.




Somebody wanted a clean blend for the Delegate recently. This would be pretty much the same idea but swapping out the Muff for the Delegate and adding the Clean-interruption.

If you download the JMK Panner PDF, may as well download the JMK Paralyzer PDF as well. Compare the schematics, see which is a better fit for your project.

In a nutshell:
The Panner is a DRY/WET rig: it splits the signal and one channel is unmolested while the other's sent to a loop.
The Paralyzer is a WET/WET rig: "a utility device for putting a pair (or more) of effects in parallel with each other, while giving the user a blend control to move between a full wet for either parallel effect, or a true 50/50 blend".

A WET/WET rig is slightly more versatile because you can leave one loop empty and there's your dry signal for a Dry/Wet blend. OR...
Plug in a Chorus and a Fuzz; an OD and a Fuzz is a great combination that sometimes blends better than a totally dry signal (note definition in a fuzz without the oil-on-top-of-water 2-separate sounds, more integrated sounding); delay & reverb in parallel is another great sound; whatever ... experiment.



A quirk/feature of both the Panner and Paralyzer is that they invert the incoming signal, the input. Then after all the mixing is done, they invert the output — so both are non-inverting devices.


With the Paralyzer, I'd put the whole shooting match in a master bypass, then each send/return would get its own stomper. Your friend could turn off the clean, or turn off the fuzz — Turning both off could be a mute if not using bypass and just using a 2PDT to interrupt the loops, one pole for interruption and the 2nd pole for LED indication. Otherwise use 3PDTs for full bypasses.

That would/could be interesting — split the signal and then bypass both loops and you'd be mixing two clean signals — would they sum and so there'd be a jump in volume, even with the final op-amp stage?




A Paralyzer loop-switcher pedal would be the most versatile, but if your friend isn't going to ever use it beyond a clean-blend built into a Muff
(Muff build into clean-blend?)...

If your friend is dead-set on a Muff with bypassable clean (no external loops etc), then I'd say the Panner is all you really need:



With a 4PDT stomper, you could have two gain settings on the Muff:

Mild gain with Clean Blend <> FULL Gain & Dry-Kill​

or​

High Gain with Clean Blend <> Lower Gain & Dry-Kill​

(Gain 1 knob and Gain 2 internal-trimmer or 2xExternal-Gain knobs)




I'll give the notebook scribblings some more thought; I'm already thinking it's quite possible.

 

[nate433]

I'm not sure I fully get the friend's notebook illustrations... but, maybe this gets you close to the first part of your post...


What I would do...

JMK Panner.
This splits the signal in two. One channel stays clean/dry, the other channel goes to the effect of choice — in this case, a Muff, but it could be any circuit and even more versatile, this whole thing could be built as a looper that allows any pedal to go into its loop. That way if your friend falls out with the Muff and favours a Fuzz Face, so be it — whatever. Stick a whole chain — Chorus pedal > tremolo > reverb — in the loop.

The master bypass turns on the JMK Panner and whatever is in the loop (or chosen circuit) is already on. Interrupt the clean signal after the split and you've got what you described in your Obsidious example.




Somebody wanted a clean blend for the Delegate recently. This would be pretty much the same idea but swapping out the Muff for the Delegate and adding the Clean-interruption.

If you download the JMK Panner PDF, may as well download the JMK Paralyzer PDF as well. Compare the schematics, see which is a better fit for your project.

In a nutshell:
The Panner is a DRY/WET rig: it splits the signal and one channel is unmolested while the other's sent to a loop.
The Paralyzer is a WET/WET rig: "a utility device for putting a pair (or more) of effects in parallel with each other, while giving the user a blend control to move between a full wet for either parallel effect, or a true 50/50 blend".

A WET/WET rig is slightly more versatile because you can leave one loop empty and there's your dry signal for a Dry/Wet blend. OR...
Plug in a Chorus and a Fuzz; an OD and a Fuzz is a great combination that sometimes blends better than a totally dry signal (note definition in a fuzz without the oil-on-top-of-water 2-separate sounds, more integrated sounding); delay & reverb in parallel is another great sound; whatever ... experiment.



A quirk/feature of both the Panner and Paralyzer is that they invert the incoming signal, the input. Then after all the mixing is done, they invert the output — so both are non-inverting devices.


With the Paralyzer, I'd put the whole shooting match in a master bypass, then each send/return would get its own stomper. Your friend could turn off the clean, or turn off the fuzz — Turning both off could be a mute if not using bypass and just using a 2PDT to interrupt the loops, one pole for interruption and the 2nd pole for LED indication. Otherwise use 3PDTs for full bypasses.

That would/could be interesting — split the signal and then bypass both loops and you'd be mixing two clean signals — would they sum and so there'd be a jump in volume, even with the final op-amp stage?




A Paralyzer loop-switcher pedal would be the most versatile, but if your friend isn't going to ever use it beyond a clean-blend built into a Muff
(Muff build into clean-blend?)...

If your friend is dead-set on a Muff with bypassable clean (no external loops etc), then I'd say the Panner is all you really need:


View attachment 91125
With a 4PDT stomper, you could have two gain settings on the Muff:

Mild gain with Clean Blend <> FULL Gain & Dry-Kill​

or​

High Gain with Clean Blend <> Lower Gain & Dry-Kill​

(Gain 1 knob and Gain 2 internal-trimmer or 2xExternal-Gain knobs)




I'll give the notebook scribblings some more thought; I'm already thinking it's quite possible.

Damn what a writeup again. You're saving my builds haha!

 

[Feral Feline]

Just want to give back to the forum in some way; I've learned so much here, been on the receiving end of so much beneficence.

Maybe there're other forums with as great or even greater crew, but... I don't knit and I don't collect Royal Dalton so I'm not aware of any place better.


Truly this is the best place online I've found.