Empyrean Deluxe vs. Obsidius

C

comradehoser

Well-known member
Having tristesses modding the Windmill, so I needed a confidence booster, and built these circuits.

[Edit: oops, forgot signal chain: Yamaha 735a (passive mode)>pedals>Sunn Sonaro with bright boost on, tone stack at 12, 2x15 cabinet, volume 2ish (I have neighbors with a baby).]

I had built the Obsidius/B3K prior, and my son wanted a build for the bassist in his band. I decided to tack another on for my bassist friend and accidentally ordered 4 boards. I don't know why, but the Obsidius had lain dormant like a dark seed under a litter of other pedals. When my son wanted to build some bass dirt, it poked its little head out, and with the similar EL Grizzled Grime, the Pyrocumulus with 200 Sunny Sunns preamp, and the Aion Acoustic 360 board, it has become really central to the way I like to play bass. Here I include the 2 extra boards without offboard wiring or J201s, (because I want to know if I need to match them), but it's essentially the guts of the completed pedal to the left. And I really like the look of 1/4 watt resistors standing up rather than the wee fiddly 1/8 watters. Sans LED, as usual.

Inspired by my rediscovery and build reports here, I went Aioning and picked up the Empyrean Deluxe/Alpha-Omega, so here's the shootout of what counts for me (obviously not the enclosures)--the tones.

Clearly, the Empyrean does what it do as a real preamp--it has a powerful EQ that you can use to dial a large variety of feels. It shares DNA with the Obsidius in that they both have clean blends which I find really useful. The Empyrean also adds the ability to blend between two different dirts, both of which I dig. I don't feel the need to have MORE clipping, actually. The gain is more than sufficient for my needs, but I tend not to like fuzz on bass, so it might just be my personal ears. Also, both pedals share a high boost/cut toggle that is "subtle" if we want to be generous.

The differences: the Empyrean sounds more detailed and "hi-fi" somehow, more polished, and slightly more restrained. The Obsidius is just a filthier, grimier pedal capable of greater clank. And with the bass boost toggled up, it's viciously low and yet retains a lot of clarity.

IMG_20251013_223649599.jpg

IMG_20251013_223805878.jpg
 
Last edited:
Nice build !

I also tried to dial some EQ settings on the Empyrean's tight channel to emulate an original Bk3, i couldnt even get close to the Bk3.
Despite the design similarities, they really sound different. The Bk3 (with grunt and mid-boost switched on) has some kind of amp-sim or cab-sim flavor which is impossible to emulate on the empyrean, in my experience. The gain texture is approximatively similar, but that's all.
The Bk3 does some sort of mid curve which makes the sound very colorful and singular, the Empyrean feels more transparent in comparison.

The Empyrean toggleswitches are doing something very different from Bk3 switches, that's probably the main reason.

In my opinion, the empyrean sounds closer to an ODB-3 variant, like the NEW Bass Overdrive from GCI. On the GCI circuit we can also get both tight and raw distortion sounds, thanks to EQ-bypass and clipping selector toggles.

Bottom line is : with GCI ODB-3 variant we can emulate both Empyrean channels, with the Emporyum we can't emulate a BK3.
That's a downside for me, but it's greatly compensated by the Empyrean ability to blend both channels.
 
Last edited:
eh là bas ma said:
Nice build !

I also tried to dial some EQ settings on the Empyrean's tight channel to emulate an original Bk3, i couldnt even get close to the Bk3.
Despite the design similarities, they really sound different. The Bk3 (with grunt and mid-boost switched on) has some kind of amp-sim or cab-sim flavor which is impossible to emulate on the empyrean, in my experience. The gain texture is approximatively similar, but that's all.

The Empyrean toggleswitches are doing something very different from Bk3 switches, that's probably the main reason.

In my opinion, the empyrean sounds closer to an ODB-3 variant, like the NEW Bass Overdrive from GCI. On the GCI circuit we can also get both tight and raw distortion sounds, thanks to EQ-bypass and clipping selector toggles.

Bottom line is : with GCI ODB-3 variant we can emulate both Empyrean channels, with the Emporyum we can't emulate a BK3.
That's a downside for me, but it's greatly compensated by the Empyrean ability to blend both channels.
Click to expand...
Agreed on everything!
 
BuddytheReow said:
How does the Obsidius fare on guitar?
Click to expand...
i find it quite interesting, but the grunt switch doesn't have much impact on the sound compared to a bass.

On a bass amp it works great, some dark and yet precise sounds, but the bk3 can only go at the edges of distortion with the gain and blend fully CW. It's not a distortion, and i think using bass circuits on guitars gives better results with more gain than the bk3 can offer.

The BassDude is amazing on guitars, probably the best bass circuit i ever tried on guitars.
 
eh là bas ma said:
i find it quite interesting, but the grunt switch doesn't have much impact on the sound compared to a bass.

On a bass amp it works great, some dark and yet precise sounds, but the bk3 can only go at the edges of distortion with the gain and blend fully CW. It's not a distortion, and i think using bass circuits on guitars gives better results with more gain than the bk3 can offer.

The BassDude is amazing on guitars, probably the best bass circuit i ever tried on guitars.
Click to expand...
BassDude you say? Got a link?
 
So a Bassman! The source of very many guitar amps. Makes sense that it would sound good on guitar. I'm sure the tubery doesn't hurt either.
 
BuddytheReow said:
Chugs and thrash
Click to expand...
[Edits for clarity]

Well, it's definitely bassy! Especially with bass boost engaged/toggle up.

Running Ibanez ar with humbuckers and then an Eastwood sidejack baritone > Obsidius> Orange little cube amp. My standard test platform.

With gain and blend dimed, I didn't find the distortion wanting. Can thrash... ish, chugs, but not tite chuggs. Sounds better the bassier you get, so baritone was better. Under the dimed setting, it's oddly attenuated on guitar.

Final verdict: it's okay, but it wouldn't kick off any chuggy thrash guitar pedals for me (Revv G3 and especially 4, thermionic, angry Charlie, amptweaker tightmetal, kraken etc) particularly as you can dial in pretty unholy amounts of bass with the eqs of most of those pedals if that's what you want.

Oddly and maybe appropriately, this seems to be very much tuned and happiest the closer you get to the bass.
 
Last edited:
Build report bonus: I built up the two "extra" Obsidius...es, both with Q2 slightly higher than Q1, which is what is reportedly desirable for JFETs that feed into one another. One I built with .068 and .079 odds. The other with .053 and .057 idea.

The difference in the nature of the breakup was.... imperceptible to me (on a guitar amp).

[edit: changed my mind on this! see post below.]
 
Last edited:
eh là bas ma said:
i find it quite interesting, but the grunt switch doesn't have much impact on the sound compared to a bass.

On a bass amp it works great, some dark and yet precise sounds, but the bk3 can only go at the edges of distortion with the gain and blend fully CW. It's not a distortion, and i think using bass circuits on guitars gives better results with more gain than the bk3 can offer.

The BassDude is amazing on guitars, probably the best bass circuit i ever tried on guitars.
Click to expand...
Not to derail your thread again Rene, but I'll second the "BassDude" as an excellent guitar pedal. I use it for bass too on the very very few times I pick up a bass. It's based on the 5B6 Tweed Bassman. So sort of a proto-proto-JTM if you will. Great tweed cleans and breakup. Also, great pedal platform.
 
Totally cool, Michael. I appreciate a good derailment.

On a derailment of the derailment, I've noticed a high end fizziness especially with the treble boost engaged, with both of my last builds. It is not present in my through hole builds. I really don't like it. Could be the standing components. Could be my poor SMD soldering. Could be low idss>high idss arrangement of Q1 and Q2.

Might have to start a troubleshooting thread if no one has any quick ideas
 
Update on the fizz and the J201s:

I really disliked the fizzyness, so I desoldered the j201s and tried switching the order. Still fizzy. Then I put in some sockets and tried doing substitutions with through-hole J201s (~38-46 IDSS--my through-hole j201s by interfet are much more consistent than the SMDs) and rotated my 4 SMDs. It seems like these circuits as built don't like J201s that are too close together in IDSS. One circuit in particular was being stubborn, and I ended up with .46 IDSS in Q1 and .22 in Q2, as read by my trusty TC-1, which is the opposite of SOP in stacking JFETs. It also read one of the JFETs as a BJT, so take those numbers with a grain of salt.

Briefly, JFET selection DOES make a big difference in the circuit. It will affect the fizziness of the clipping, the bass content, and the "clankiness" for lack of a better word. I don't quite perceive what the criteria for selection could be. It seems like matching and ordering them in ascending order of IDSS doesn't really work. I actually had better luck with random selection of J201s. I also don't know what part the ICs play in the overall deal and how the J201s feed into/influence their behavior. Nor what part using standing 1/4w resistors vs. 1/8w laydown resistors would play (probably not a lot).

Socket the JFET pads, and audition some combinations if you have them. If you don't, no big, it will still sound pretty dang good.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top