Ideas on a very small order + bypass switcher

[iamjackslackof]

Question for the hive mind.

I am trying to build the smallest A/B switcher that also has an on/bypassed switch. I have a UAFX Orion that I really like for slapback and longer delays, but it doesn't have presets. My idea is to get another Orion, leave them both enabled, and then A/B switch them, along with an on/bypass switch for no delay.

I'm trying to think of how to do this in as small a package as I can. I'm also open to schematics/PCB for this as well, if this exact thing already exists. Otherwise I'll just combine an A/B with a normal switching setup.

I figure I need 6 jacks and 2 3PDT stomp switches. LEDs might change that though, and I think they'll be a requirement. It seems like a lot for a 1590, A or B.

Another possibly dumb idea I had is to use a stereo jack for in and out from each pedal, and use a Y cable to the pedal jacks. I have no idea if this is possible/too noisy/otherwise problematic, does anyone know?

The last quirk is I am using a Temple Audio board with quick releases. A possible idea I had is to use a riser to put 1 pedal on top of the other, and the switcher nearby/next to the stack of Orions. The slapback doesn't need settings changed, so it can be underneath and inaccessible.

This is a lot of rambling and half-baked ideas, but I'd love some input, thoughts, or ideas on how to accomplish this. Or if anyone could convince Universal Audio to add presets to the Orion, it would save me some work

Thanks!

 

[iamjackslackof]

After some digging in the Utility section, it looks like the Passive A/B/Y might be what I'm after? I can't quite tell.

 

[iamjackslackof]

Found exactly what I need from Saturnworks!

 

[Feral Feline]

Nothin' against Saturnworks, actually, but... You should build it yourself!





You could use a 2Knob-Job from GPCB,



but really you don't need any PCBs...



I'm sure I worked up a version of this but couldn't find my own diagram, so here's one from MDC:

 

[iamjackslackof]

Nothin' against Saturnworks, actually, but... You should build it yourself!





You could use a 2Knob-Job from GPCB,

View attachment 89886

but really you don't need any PCBs...



I'm sure I worked up a version of this but couldn't find my own diagram, so here's one from MDC:

View attachment 89885

Thank you! I would absolutely rather build it myself. But it's nice to know if I screw it up or can't get it working I have a backup plan.

And that diagram honestly seems simpler than I expected, with LEDs even! Where is it from? Can't place MDC, but I recognize the image style.

I looked into Y cables, and I think they'd end up being somewhat bulky and annoying and probably not much of a space saver, if they're even possible, which I'm not sure on still.

Finally, I wonder what the smallest box I could smash this into. 6 jacks and 2 stomps is a lot, and I'm using pancake jacks on my board. I think 125B is certainly doable, so that would be the biggest, so not bad at all if I can't go smaller. I'm also thinking about maybe getting creative and trying to re-house the Orions or something, in an attempt to squish everything into the smallest space possible.

Thanks again @Feral Feline !

 

[iamjackslackof]

Oh, I had another idea! What if I make the main on/off switch remote switchable? I've never done it before, I'm certain it's possible, but I don't know how. I've done it for Strymon pedals and amps, but they are simpler than this, just momentary SPST or something, simply needing to temporarily make/break a connection.

I frequently try to emulate Jimmy Page/Zeppelin tones, and he has a on/off switch for his Echoplex on the floor, so I could do it too this way! He also has a single Echoplex and a roadie to change settings, so until I have that, I need this dual pedal setup

 

[Cybercow]

It should be able to be done inside a 1590B enclosure. I did a stereo-in to mono(L/R) out switcher in a 1590B and as you can see there is still room to re-arrange things to get two stomps into it and using just mono jacks, you should be good.

 

[iamjackslackof]

It should be able to be done inside a 1590B enclosure. I did a stereo-in to mono(L/R) out switcher in a 1590B and as you can see there is still room to re-arrange things to get two stomps into it and using just mono jacks, you should be good.

That's perfect, plenty of room for what I'm doing! Thanks Cybercow!. I'll be using all mono Lumberg jacks as well, so I'd have a little more room from that too 1590B it is!

 

[iamjackslackof]

Oh, I had another idea! What if I make the main on/off switch remote switchable? I've never done it before, I'm certain it's possible, but I don't know how. I've done it for Strymon pedals and amps, but they are simpler than this, just momentary SPST or something, simply needing to temporarily make/break a connection.

I frequently try to emulate Jimmy Page/Zeppelin tones, and he has a on/off switch for his Echoplex on the floor, so I could do it too this way! He also has a single Echoplex and a roadie to change settings, so until I have that, I need this dual pedal setup

Replying to myself, I think I have an idea on getting a remote switch working. I could use a standard PPCB relay bypass as the master on/off switch, which uses a SPST momentary switch. Add another jack and cable that runs out to a tiny enclosure with another momentary SPST switch. Voila. I think this should allow the main switch to work alone too. I'll probably just build the thing with a relay, and then add in the remote option later if I still decide I want it.

 

[Feral Feline]

Oh, I had another idea! What if I make the main on/off switch remote switchable? I've never done it before, I'm certain it's possible, but I don't know how. I've done it for Strymon pedals and amps, but they are simpler than this, just momentary SPST or something, simply needing to temporarily make/break a connection.

I frequently try to emulate Jimmy Page/Zeppelin tones, and he has a on/off switch for his Echoplex on the floor, so I could do it too this way! He also has a single Echoplex and a roadie to change settings, so until I have that, I need this dual pedal setup

Yup, as Cybercow noted you can squeeze it all into a 1590B.

IF you want the remote option, and all jacks on one face, I'd recommend the 1590N1.
For that you'd of course need one of the Relay Bypass boards (which are actually more complex overall and more like the Strymon),
and then instead of hooking the switch up to it, you hook the mo up to a jack and then another 1590LB with the appropriate momentary hooked up to a jack.

You could hook up two relays, I think one would have to be the Intelligent relay, and use a TRS (stereo) cable from a 1590A with two footswitches so you could have bypass and A/B switched remotely. That's how they switch channels and a reverb on old amps, with a TRS, if I understand it correctly.

I can't find a pic of my own patch-bay, I posted it so it's on the forum somewhere, but anyway...

You can cram a lot in a 1590N1...

 

[iamjackslackof]

Yup, as Cybercow noted you can squeeze it all into a 1590B.

IF you want the remote option, and all jacks on one face, I'd recommend the 1590N1.
For that you'd of course need one of the Relay Bypass boards (which are actually more complex overall and more like the Strymon),
and then instead of hooking the switch up to it, you hook the mo up to a jack and then another 1590LB with the appropriate momentary hooked up to a jack.

You could hook up two relays, I think one would have to be the Intelligent relay, and use a TRS (stereo) cable from a 1590A with two footswitches so you could have bypass and A/B switched remotely. That's how they switch channels and a reverb on old amps, with a TRS, if I understand it correctly.

I can't find a pic of my own patch-bay, I posted it so it's on the forum somewhere, but anyway...

You can cram a lot in a 1590N1...

Thanks again!

What is the difference between a 125B and a 1590N1? I've always assumed they were the same thing size-wise.

Good call on needing a relay for the A/B switching. So far I think I would be OK with just remote switching on/bypassed, which would simplify things greatly. But it's good to have the option thought out and available if I change my mind.

 

[Feral Feline]

A millimetre or 2 — essentially the same size.

I kind of lied to you though. That BoredBrain patch box is a little taller (IIRC) than a regular N1:

Still though, N1 has lots of room for what you want to do!



1590A A/B switcher (toggle is for?) :

Pic originally from DIYSB



Here's one about the size of a MXR box (Phase 90 etc)

I love that style of 4PDT ! Never got one; years ago I could only find them on European parts-sites so... to HK or Canada — $₶৲₱₽৲₦₲!
Now I can't seem to find them at all.

Anyhooo... with an N1 and staggering the jacks up and down a bit, I think you can get all jacks on one side of the enclosure.

Also, forgot to mention that with a switched jack, you could build the N1 up as a standalone, but when you plug in the remote-cable into that switched jack your little 1590LB/A/G/whatever can do the switching remotely.

For me, maximum versatility is the way to go. Better to have something and not need it than to need something and not have it.

So I'd go...

N1
7 jacks (IN OUT AS AR BS BR REMOTE)
2 RELAY STOMPERS (both Intelligent, so can stomp-hold for momentary or stomp-release for latching)

1 Intelligent Bypass​

2 Intelligent Switching​

1 Funky Graphic or paint

 

[iamjackslackof]

N1 it is!

And I think you're right on the relay for the A/B switch. I have several non-intelligent ones already built in bulk, but I'm not sure on why I would need the intelligent ones. I've never used them and don't fully understand their use cases. I do think I'll need a relay switching instead of my existing bypass one, for A/B switching.

It's funny that the absolute hardest part of all of this would be for me to come up with anything remotely approaching good graphics or paint haha.

And I just realized I already have an A/B audition pedal built, that really only needs a master switch added. I think I'll still build this from scratch though, as I don't want to lose my audition pedal, or deal with building another.

Thanks yet again!

 

[Feral Feline]

I'd just be using the intelligent ones for momentarily engaging whatever's in the loops.

Like if you had a fast tremolo in one and a slow phaser in the other and had the phaser on for most of the song and then to introduce the middle-eight bring in the tremolo for just a few bars by standing on the switch and once let go it goes straight back to slow-phasing.

In most cases it'd be easy enough to just turn the loop on/off or switch loops with a stomp, but for the occasional hectic outburst, being able to stutter-stab with your toe can be a fun thing, if otherwise useless.

 

[Feral Feline]

I'd been looking through my stuff for a diagram with jacks.
Easy enough to extrapolate the above to having jacks.

Found it in this thread.

 

[iamjackslackof]

I'd been looking through my stuff for a diagram with jacks.
Easy enough to extrapolate the above to having jacks.

Found it in this thread.

Wonderful, thank you! That's much easier for me to follow, save for the grounding. I could do a star ground I guess. Or use the middle row of lugs? I don't actually know if I need a ground lug on the switches, but to ground the unused input per best best practice would need it, no?

Thanks again, this project is looking easier and easier. I'm traveling and I really wish I was home to start on it!

 

[Feral Feline]

Wonderful, thank you! That's much easier for me to follow, save for the grounding. I could do a star ground I guess. Or use the middle row of lugs? I don't actually know if I need a ground lug on the switches, but to ground the unused input per best best practice would need it, no?

Thanks again, this project is looking easier and easier. I'm traveling and I really wish I was home to start on it!

Star grounding vs star-grounding vero-strip vs other...

For context, see this thread.

 

[iamjackslackof]

Perfect, thanks! Vero strip is smart and what I'll likely do. I think I might try to do a double/2-in-1 LED to save some space and wiring.

 

[iamjackslackof]

Did some thinking on this, how to organize all 3 pedals on my board. Initially I thought about using a riser, with the slap back Orion underneath since it won't need tweaking, the longer/changeable Orion on top of the riser, and the switcher... somewhere.

But it occurred to me that I could try re-housing both Orion pedals, and put them into a single enclosure, along with all the switching parts.

I found a silicone dust cover for the Orion, and I realized I could use it as a drill template on the enclosure, as well as the labeling, so no need for art or trying to label everything by hand and looking awful.

I figure a 1590DD should work, or maybe a 1590X. I don't really want to cram it in the smallest box possible; considering the amount of functionality in the box, I'm OK with it taking up some space. If I get real crazy, maybe I'll eventually squeeze in my Chase Tone Secret Pre for the full Echoplex experience!

Also I think I'm going to try to use a pre-wired common anode LED from LMS, and I'm not quite sure how to wire that in conjunction with a PPCB relay board, but I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. And by cross it I mean ask for help on the forum lol.

 

[Feral Feline]

The Orion dimensions width&depth are about the same as a 1590N1 (125B), but UAFX only gives the outer dimensions including protruberances ie including the height of the knobs.

To house two Orions you'll need a 1590XX minimum, which has a height of 39mm (35mm less lid; 1590X is taller, at 52mm less lid & 56 with — if you want to hedge your bets).


On the far left is a 1590N1, to the right of the green-taped enclosure is a 1590XX.
( L–R: N1, B3, BB, Q [120x120], XX, DD )

You'll be able to fit both Orions' guts in the XX with enough space between them so each's controls next to each other in the middle aren't crowded together.

JACKS:
You'll have enough room to have a master in/out and individual in/out for each Orion (6-jacks total, well audio, should you decide to go that route.

Personally I'd have four (4) audio jacks
Orion-1 IN
Orion-1 OUT-SWITCHING-JACK to...
Orion-2 IN
Orion-2 OUT

With the switching jack, you have the two Orions connected internally, until you insert some thing in the LOOP (which is the O-1's out and O-2's IN). If you want to get fancy, you can have a bypass stomper for whatever's in the loop.

ONE power-jack, using PedalPCB's 9V breakout board.


You can hardwire the Orions' stompers to ON/remove them, and use all the fancy-schmancy intelligent-relay switching discussed previously.
That way you could maintain the master bypass as well as the Orion-switching functionality.


CHASE TONE SECRET
1590DD mandatory, if adding another circuit (unless adding a SHO/similar) — NO way to fit 3xN1 into an XX.


To clarify something: Are you going to cut up a couple silicone dust-covers and use them on the XX pedal? You could same some bucks and use the stock enclosure as a drill template.