Switching Multiple PCBs

[debrad]

Hi Everyone,

I'm putting a few circuits into a single box for a friend and he has asked whether I can have a "master" bypass, a footswitch to toggle between the two effects, and the ability to run one into the other (I've also suggested a toggle switch to change the effects order...but that's a separate issue).

My brain can handle the master bypass and the footswitchable toggle between the two effects but, with that in place, I can't seem to wrap my head around a third option where both circuits are on (obviously the scenario I would also need in order to make the order switching applicable).

If the master is "on", doesn't the "toggle" scenario automatically mean only one effect at a time can be on? Is it possible to wire up a switching arrangement where I can have:

1) no effects (i.e. bypass)
2) one effect at a time (toggle between effect 1 and effect 2)
3) both effects on

Any help would be much appreciated!

- brad -

 

[jimilee]

Are you gonna have a stomp or switch for each effect in addition to the master switch? In this scenario, with a flipper switch, both can still be on.

 

[debrad]

That's what I'm trying to decide @jimilee, what combination of stomps and toggles do I need to give this guy everything he wants. Bypass and toggle is easy (and I wouldn't need individual stomps for each effect); however, if he wants to toggle between them and ALSO have the option to have both on at the same time, I'm not 100% sure how to do it...

 

[Feral Feline]

Could it be done with PPCB's Smart Relay (after the master-bypass and order-switcher)?

Smart Relay:
- One press switches between the two circuits,
- Press&Hold turns both circuits on/back-to-one


Of course, simplest-easiest solution is a stomper for each circuit that are placed close enough together that they can both be trod upon at the same time and the order switcher on a toggle — where's the build-fun in that?

 

[debrad]

Apologies @jimilee, I hope my message didn't sound sassy...definitely NOT my intention. I was trying to say that your question is a good one because it's exactly the kind of thing I'm trying to figure out. In my mind, it was 3PDT master going to order flipper going to 3PDT switches for each individual circuit (see here: PPCB wiring layout )...that would give me the option to have 1) one on, 2) the other on, 3) both on...switch the order...and turn the entire box on and off with the master. The only thing I lose is the ability to toggle between circuit one on and circuit two on with a single stomp...but even that could be accomplished if I put the individual switches close enough!

@Feral Feline has intrigued me though...I'm going to have to investigate this PPCB "Smart Relay" you speak of!

 

[Feral Feline]

It's been my friend's experience, one who had a dual-stomper pedal, that he couldn't always cleanly turn one off while turning the other on — even when he was successful doing so he was never sure nor confident it would happen at that key moment he needed it to — he wound up using separate pedals into a Boss MS-3 switcher to better handle one-stomp/multiple-pedal switches. Then he quit his band and traded off the MS-3.

Having two independent footswitches AND a master footswitch seems redundant, though. From a gigging perspective, single stomp on two switches may not jive well — Especially if both circuits are off when you step on the master to engage one of them.


I hope the Smart Relay can do what you need it to!

 

[jimilee]

Apologies @jimilee, I hope my message didn't sound sassy...definitely NOT my intention. I was trying to say that your question is a good one because it's exactly the kind of thing I'm trying to figure out. In my mind, it was 3PDT master going to order flipper going to 3PDT switches for each individual circuit (see here: PPCB wiring layout )...that would give me the option to have 1) one on, 2) the other on, 3) both on...switch the order...and turn the entire box on and off with the master. The only thing I lose is the ability to toggle between circuit one on and circuit two on with a single stomp...but even that could be accomplished if I put the individual switches close enough!

@Feral Feline has intrigued me though...I'm going to have to investigat this PPCB "Smart Relay" you speak of!

No, you’re good. It sounds like you would wire your ins and outs to the jacks using the effects send and return to your flipper, then wire up the rest as normal.

 

[jimilee]

It's been my friend's experience, one who had a dual-stomper pedal, that he couldn't always cleanly turn one off while turning the other on — even when he was successful doing so he was never sure nor confident it would happen at that key moment he needed it to — he wound up using separate pedals into a Boss MS-3 switcher to better handle one-stomp/multiple-pedal switches. Then he quit his band and traded off the MS-3.

Having two independent footswitches AND a master footswitch seems redundant, though. From a gigging perspective, single stomp on two switches may not jive well — Especially if both circuits are off when you step on the master to engage one of them.


I hope the Smart Relay can do what you need it to!

Sounds like a single channel effects looper instead of like an 8 channel or something.

 

[jwin615]

Normal bypass feeding a 2nd 3pdt
Pole 1 inA - in - inB
Pole 2 outA - out - outB
Use it to switch a common anode bicolor led like here

Bi-colour LED wiring?

Bear with me a sec. Grr. So I've got a distortion pedal. I'd like to have 2 volume controls that you can switch between, kinda working like amp channels I guess. Set one quiet, set one loud and it's sort of an inbuilt boost (almost). The easiest method I could think up was this: Just your...

forum.pedalpcb.com

 

[Feral Feline]

Like this, @jwin615 ?



I used pole 2 for the LEDs, which I left off their wiring as that's already covered elsewhere.


This is an either/or — I'm not seeing how it can be modded to have both A&B on at the same time.

 

[Feral Feline]

Here's having one on with another optionally running into it, for example feeding a boost into an OD or similar:

 

[jwin615]

Oh, I missed they wanted both.
Trying to think how you could work at order switch in there as well maybe make that work but I just woke up and not capable currently...

Could mount 2 normal on offs close enough together to be stomped at the same time. Probably the easiest way as long as they don't want to order switch.

@debrad in scenario 3, do the want A->B or A+B(parallel)?
If parallel, use ABY wiring and a mixing stage. Need to be sure the two effects are in phase or setup mixer to flip phase on one effect.

Via: https://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=126558.0

 

[debrad]

I really appreciate the feedback everyone! I think this diagram from @jwin615 comes the closest but "the client" is really looking for a series configuration when both A and B are turned on...and preferably with the ability to swap the order of A and B.

Even though @Feral Feline is right that master and individual footswitches may be redundant AND that stomping two switches at the same time can be a challenge, I'm still thinking that my earlier plan above should cover off his needs...minus the single switch to toggle between A and B.

 

[Feral Feline]

I'm still thinking a relay-based solution could get you everything your pal wants, but I'm just not versed well enough in the "smart"-relay to figure it out.

I'd hunt down all the threads (and individual posts) about the smart-relay, as much as possible, and try to assess that further.

 

[jimilee]

So, wire up the 2 effects to each stomp and flipper switch like normal. Take your input and output jacks to the main bypass stomp. The effect send on the main bypass stomp will go to the flipper switch in. The main bypass stomp effect return will go to the flipper switch out.

 

[Robert]

You'll need some method to change the switching mode from A or B to A and B.

An extra footswitch, a toggle switch, or a "hold" feature on a microcontroller based relay switching system.


Take a look at how the Mad Professor Supreme switching works.

There are two footswitches. In one mode you have a Master Bypass footswitch and an A/B toggle footswitch.

In the other mode one footswitch activates/bypasses channel A, the other footswitch activates/bypasses channel B.

 

[debrad]

I agree with @Feral Feline that I really need to investigate the world of relay switches; however, @jimilee and @Robert have both given me something to consider. Jimi's looks more like the order switching that I can get from Robert's PCBs but that Mad Professor setup might meet this guy's needs! Love the fact that you are all taking be back to school on this one!!

Would those Mad Professor switches be regular 3pdt or more likely relays?

 

[Feral Feline]

I'm just cribbing off someone else's notes!

Take that MadProfessor Supreme switchcraft and make the toggle a third footswitch...

 

[Robert]

Would those Mad Professor switches be regular 3pdt or more likely relays?

I've only seen a picture, haven't had a chance to actually trace the switching. I believe it uses two 3PDTs, the toggle switch, and a relay to accomplish the switching.