Looking for Ideas on "EQ-less" overdrive pedals...

[Caldo71]

Hi Folks,

So as I grow as a builder, I've been ruminating for a while now on the idea that I'm not wild about the usual three-bands-or-less EQs that are part of the usual overdrive pedal, which I always seem to have to follow up with some kind of secondary EQ. Then today I stumbled across the pedalPCB Wiki for the first time, and noticed the "2-in-1 Pedal Wiring Single Footswitch" entry, which is very much in line with what I was already thinking of doing: integrating the PedalPCB 6-band EQ (rotary version) into the same build as any overdrive I'm building!

So, with that in mind, it seems like it's superfluous to have both the extra knobs and extra tweaking of that overdive's original EQ in the mix at all, taking up enclosure real estate etc. So I'm looking for some isights from the experienced builders here on how to "trim the fat" and let the 6-band EQ follow the overdrive and do all the heavy lifting. My initial two strongest concepts—I think—are:

1. Bypassing the EQ sections on the original pedals entirely: and for this, would I just need to jumper pads 1 and 2 on the overdrive's EQ controls to achieve this? Or do I need to learn more?
   
   
2. Replacing the standard pots with internal trimmers...so that I can "pre-dial" my various overdrives to a generally-pleasing middle-ground tonality before housing 'em, and let the following 6-band EQ do the rest: is this even viable? trimmers don't seem to have "linear" vs "audio" tapers, so as a newbish builder I don't know if trimmers in place of standard pots will get me where I need to go, or if that would somehow fuck up my tones.

Or is there a smarter THIRD OPTION that I'm not thinking of due to my inexperience? Open to anything! Interested in you guys' thoughts!

Sorry for the long post...hope that all makes sense.

 

[phi1]

I’d probably go for the internal trimmer route. The following is just some thoughts to consider about why dirt pedals have these knobs and why I probably wouldn’t run them at max.

nearly all dirt pedals apply pre-clipping bass cut and post-clipping treble cut, bass cut is not always on a knob but is usually there. The reason? Clipping harmonics change the eq character. Clipping low frequencies adds harmonics in the lower mids which get muddy. Clipping higher frequencies adds even higher harmonics, which can sound shrill or harsh.

A Timmy is a great example, generally considered a totally transparent drive. it has a pre-clipping bass cut knob, and post-clipping treble cut knob. If you run the gain low with no clipping, then the bass and treble knobs at max sounds transparent. As you increase gain, leaving bass and treble knobs maxed will not sound transparent, rather boomy lows and shrill highs due to all the harmonics. If you cut some bass and cut some treble, it becomes sonically transparent again. That’s what makes the Timmy design great for transparency, simple but well tuned and well placed bass and treble knobs. Tube screamer types are pretty different since the tone knob can both boost and cut treble and there’s no bass knob so there’s not really a neutral low gain setting, and it’s designed to have more mod boost anyway.

Anyway, you can probably dial in a spot you like for the od circuit tone knob with a trimmer, then tweak the 6 band eq. probably a better starting point for your eq section than bypassing or jumpering at max for most circuits.

 

[manfesto]

Most OD pedals have EQ shaping in lots of places besides just the tone stack, so bypassing or removing it still won’t leave you with a terribly “flat” signal (which may or may not matter if it’ll still take well to EQ’ing).

If you wanna play with the idea maybe start with the Crankshaft Distortion; it’s a one-knob OD with a pretty neutral tonality that I’d imagine would take well to EQ’ing.

 

[Caldo71]

I’d probably go for the internal trimmer route. The following is just some thoughts to consider about why dirt pedals have these knobs and why I probably wouldn’t run them at max.

nearly all dirt pedals apply pre-clipping bass cut and post-clipping treble cut, bass cut is not always on a knob but is usually there. The reason? Clipping harmonics change the eq character. Clipping low frequencies adds harmonics in the lower mids which get muddy. Clipping higher frequencies adds even higher harmonics, which can sound shrill or harsh.

A Timmy is a great example, generally considered a totally transparent drive. it has a pre-clipping bass cut knob, and post-clipping treble cut knob. If you run the gain low with no clipping, then the bass and treble knobs at max sounds transparent. As you increase gain, leaving bass and treble knobs maxed will not sound transparent, rather boomy lows and shrill highs due to all the harmonics. If you cut some bass and cut some treble, it becomes sonically transparent again. That’s what makes the Timmy design great for transparency, simple but well tuned and well placed bass and treble knobs. Tube screamer types are pretty different since the tone knob can both boost and cut treble and there’s no bass knob so there’s not really a neutral low gain setting, and it’s designed to have more mod boost anyway.

Anyway, you can probably dial in a spot you like for the od circuit tone knob with a trimmer, then tweak the 6 band eq. probably a better starting point for your eq section than bypassing or jumpering at max for most circuits.

Yeah I mean I’m very familiar with how “pre-eq” can tighten or flub out overdriven sounds which is exactly why I want to pursue this tack… for the stuff my band currently plays (tight 80s-inspired metal stuff), pulling out some of the lows and boosting the higher mids BEFORE the clipping is fantastic. FOR THAT, I have the Dwarven Hammer. So I’m covered there, and yeah to your point, I would indeed keep the EQ trimmers on the overdrive pedal to very conservative settings and just kind of “sweet spot” them. The post-overdrive EQ circuit would be the more “hi-fi” tone shaping…adding back in those epic lows and sizzling highs without affecting the warmth or clarity of the clipping stage.

 

[Caldo71]

Most OD pedals have EQ shaping in lots of places besides just the tone stack, so bypassing or removing it still won’t leave you with a terribly “flat” signal (which may or may not matter if it’ll still take well to EQ’ing).

If you wanna play with the idea maybe start with the Crankshaft Distortion; it’s a one-knob OD with a pretty neutral tonality that I’d imagine would take well to EQ’ing.

In my particular situation I don’t really need to “experiment” with any basic tone stack OD as it’s more like I already know the weapon I need for my sound (I prefer hard-clipping jfet stuff and the Randall RRED (aka the End All Red here on PedalPCB) is my fave, so I’m really just trying to minimize the use and footprint of its “built-in” EQ circuit while expanding on its post-gain EQ shaping range by daisy-chaining the six-band EQ after it and in the same enclosure via the PedalPCB wiki’s proscribed method.

So yeah I guess I’ll try a build with the trimmers in place of normal pots on the End All Red PCB, and as per both of you guys’ comments hopefully I’ll have a great distortion pedal with really minimal/conservative EQ’ing in that curcuit, that I can follow with the more expansive 6-band.

 

[Bio77]

If your playing 80s metal, why not make a DOD distortion +/250? It only has 2 knobs.

 

[Caldo71]

If your playing 80s metal, why not make a DOD distortion +/250? It only has 2 knobs.

Haha well you should go ahead and build yourself an End-All Red and maybe you can answer your own question ;-) Spoiler: they sound fucking awesome. I mean, I get that the Distortion+ is super-80s-ish and super-no-nonsense, and they sound great in their way…but not that great IMHO that I’m going to plant my flag there.

That Randall Jfet curcuit I prefer is most “famous” for being the core of Dimebag’s sound on the first two 90s Pantera records, BUT, it (in the form of the Randall RG-100 heads) has been around since the 80s.

And is far-less-famously 100% responsible for George Lynch’s tone on Dokken’s Tooth and Nail in 1984…which I would argue is an emminently awesomer tone than the much more lauded tones he got on Under Lock and Key the following year with the modded Marshalls and Michael Wagoner overproducing it yadda-yadda.

I suspect that the guitar tones on Motley Crue’s Shout at the Devil album are also done with RG-100s…those tones sound SUPER similar to me, and producer Roy Thomas Baker had a hand in both albums. Mick Mars is famously tight-lipped about his gear, and most people go chasing old Marshalls to try and get that tone. But I’m sticking with my crackpot conspiracy theory ;-)

Yes, I digress. Don’t get me started on this stuff.

 

[djmiyta]

Have you tried a BBE Sonic Maximizer?Pretty amazing circuit with tons of tone shaping while remaining super clean. I been thinking exactly the same thing only replacing your EQ with the BBE. For me I like options and choices so I’d keep the EQ of the OD pedal unless it adds noise or it’s useless. But now I’m thinking why stop there and incorporate your idea to mine and do a 3 in 1
The biggest pitfall I’ve had doing 2 in 1 is not putting an order switch in to swap positions of the circuits and having the separate boxes gives the options to be used separately with other fx

 

[jubal81]

When you say 'trim the fat,' do you mean you want to save space or you want one foot switch to control the distortion and EQ together?