Muzzle not fully gating signal

[sshort86]

Hello all,

I've built a muzzle classic (THAT 4305 retro fit module) with the key input and pass thru jacks. It works...okay...It mutes chugs pretty well, but it doesn't seem to fully gate the amp hum and/or incidental string noise like a normal noise gate. It attenuates the noise, but doesn't totally eliminate it unless the threshold is turned up to an unusable level that also cuts off notes. Every demo I've seen of the real Zuul pedal works like a normal gate, cutting off anything below the threshold and adequately opening the gate to let notes through. Is the muzzle just an inferior circuit clone, or am I missing something? Anyone else have the same problem and/or a solution?

 

[Fama]

Did you try with the internal range switch set to different values?

 

[sshort86]

Yes. It behaves the same but with about 10% more/less "useable" range on the knob depending on the setting.

 

[Robert]

The Zuul (and Muzzle) doesn't behave like a typical gate and what you describe sounds like normal operation.

See the demo in this post:

That4305 issues

Has anyone built the muzzle with the new that4305 adapter board? Ive built 2 and both have the same issue , only gate when the threshold is maxed out , the key isnt working and it cuts off notes.. I have built about 10 to 15 of the regular 4301s and smds without any issues and just cant figure...

forum.pedalpcb.com

However, another member believed they were having a problem with the THAT4305 module last year so I sent a replacement and all was well.... But, once the defective module was returned it also behaved exactly as it's supposed to, so I'm not quite sure what the issue actually was.

I can send you a replacement 4305 module if you'd like but I think the circuit is behaving exactly how it's supposed to.

 

[sshort86]

The Zuul (and Muzzle) doesn't behave like a typical gate and what you describe sounds like normal operation.

See the demo in this post:

That4305 issues

Has anyone built the muzzle with the new that4305 adapter board? Ive built 2 and both have the same issue , only gate when the threshold is maxed out , the key isnt working and it cuts off notes.. I have built about 10 to 15 of the regular 4301s and smds without any issues and just cant figure...

forum.pedalpcb.com

However, another member believed they were having a problem with the THAT4305 module last year so I sent a replacement and all was well.... But, once the defective module was returned it also behaved exactly as it's supposed to, so I'm not quite sure what the issue actually was.

I can send you a replacement 4305 module if you'd like but I think the circuit is behaving exactly how it's supposed to.

No need to send a replacement. I soldered mine directly to the board, and I don't have the skill or equipment to desolder that beast. If it's behaving as it should, then it is what it is. Just disappointing to have been bamboozled by the rave reviews for the Zuul on youtube, none of which made note of this peculiar behavior. I don't plan to record with it, as I can stack as many gate plugins as I want using vsts, so it's not a total loss. I just had higher hopes, as it was one of the cleanest builds I've done, and my favorite of my custom enclosure graphics that I've done, so it's staying on my pedalboard regardless. Thanks for the replies.

P.S. Does the middle pad of the key input area of the pcb serve a purpose? The build doc doesn't mention it, but I did see a gut shot on another forum post where the guy wired the sleeve of his key input jack to the center pad to ground it I guess? Just curious.

Also, using a tuner as a splitter to run output to key and bypass in front of the amp totally doesn't work either. Engaging the tuner doesn't mute the signal as it should. It seems the key input circuit does not work as advertised. Overall just really disappointed in this build, but at this point I'm just whining lol.

Cheers, all.

 

[Robert]

It's a little different from a gate that clamps to absolute silence, but it's really one of the best I've ever used.


The center pad is an optional ground for the Key jack.

If you used metal jacks it isn't necessary. With plastic jacks you have the option of a ground lift (or not).

The way the key works is you plug your guitar into the Key In, then the Key Out into the front of your amp. Then the standard In/Out jacks go into the effects loop of your amp (or later in your pedal chain).

 

[sshort86]

It's a little different from a gate that clamps to absolute silence, but it's really one of the best I've ever used.


The center pad is an optional ground for the Key jack.

If you used metal jacks it isn't necessary. With plastic jacks you have the option of a ground lift (or not).

The way the key works is you plug your guitar into the Key In, then the Key Out into the front of your amp. Then the standard In/Out jacks go into the effects loop of your amp (or later in your pedal chain).

Right. I understand how the key input works. I originally only included the key in like the original Zuul and used the tuner as a splitter, and even when tuning, the signal passed through the gate, despite allegedly not sending signal to the key input and therefore not triggering the gate to open. To remedy this, I added the key out on the Muzzle so the front of the amp only receives a signal if the tuner is off.

I did use the recommended plastic enclosed switching TRS jack from Tayda on the build doc. I'll try adding a ground wire to see if that helps.

I think it might be worth noting, I do have an unreasonably noisy setup, I suspect due to an old house with less than stellar electrical. It's on my to do list to get the power to my home studio moved to its own dedicated breaker, rather than sharing one with 3 other rooms and an outdoor lamp post...Hopefully that helps.