MichaelW
Well-known member
Yah, definitely the CTS push pull is probably not going to work. Not sure about the Bourns models.
Something else: 50s vintage wiring vs modern and caps
- Thread starter harmaes
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Bricksnbeatles
Member known well
I’ve occasionally had luck going through the bridge pickup cavity
MichaelW
Well-known member
That depends on whether its a true hollow body (Like my Eastman) or if it's more like an ES33x with the center block. If the latter then you're pretty much hosed. My model Eastman is a true hollow body with a center block under the bridge. So I can access the controls through the bridge pickup cavity. With most semi hollows there's a mahogany block running the length of the body and the hollow parts are just the "wings" (Hence the "semi" in Semi-hollow). I'm not sure how the SA2200 is built. But like with a true ES335 the only choice to remove and install the wiring is through the F-holes. Watching someome that knows what they're doing is truly a sublime work of art.
Bricksnbeatles
Member known well
Even with the center block, there’s occasionally enough material removed on the treble side of the cavity (or that side is completely opeb) that you can put it through without an issue. Of course not all are like that (Gibson isn’t), but I’ve seen it on a few different semi-hollow makes. If it’s a full hollow, that makes it much easier of course (reminds me I need to rewire my casino)
The SA2200 is build like the ES-335 and the center block for the bridge HB only has a tiny hole for the cable.
I’ve installed 2 Alpha push-push pots for both tones and that’s worked well via the F-hole. My first step is going to be to replace the current modern with 50s wiring and removing the treble bleeds. This should not be too much work.
Also checking if I can fix the push-push pots stickyness and replacing the split wiring with a bridge series/parallel.
Looking at the pictures you shared @MichaelW Im not sure a Schaller Megaswitch M rotary will go through the F-holes? That will be tight as well.
I’ve installed 2 Alpha push-push pots for both tones and that’s worked well via the F-hole. My first step is going to be to replace the current modern with 50s wiring and removing the treble bleeds. This should not be too much work.
Also checking if I can fix the push-push pots stickyness and replacing the split wiring with a bridge series/parallel.
Looking at the pictures you shared @MichaelW Im not sure a Schaller Megaswitch M rotary will go through the F-holes? That will be tight as well.
What’s a freeway switch? I considered a Schaller Megaswitch M rotary.
Thanks for checking that out! Thats indeed not going to work.
I’m receiving the Kings hand today. I’ll build it anyway and maybe leave it out if the enclosure until I’ve build the v2. Looking forward to hearing which version you prefer?I have the Kings Hand V2 on the bench right now. Running into some issues that I'm trying to work my way out of. Not the PCB but that fact that I'm trying to use it in a combo build in a 1590BB. Not recommended, this V2 board really needs a 125B (as I'm finding out). But since I already drilled my enclosure I'm determined to try to make it work, we'll see. Not sure when it will be officially released but @PedalPCB sent me one in advance. Part of the reason I love this place and prefer to give him my business whenever I can. Just a great customer centric business.
Re: Gibson, it depends on what model. I know the R series Custom Shop LP's and ES's are all wired period correct depending what year it's supposed to be. Not sure about their off the rack LP Standards, if I were to guess I'd say no, not 50's wiring but "modern" wiring which seems to be the standard for most companies, PRS included. The Duncan 59 and Thornbucker combo sounds pretty awesome. The Duncan 59 probably my favorite "big brand" humbucker and I've heard so many people rave about the Thornbuckers. I'm a big fan of "vintage output" pickups. I remember reading about Pete Thorn influencing John Suhr when they were designing the pickup. All of Suhr's other HB's tend to be higher output. Pete's argument was that with all the boost and drive pedals, not to mention high gain amps, the handicap of a lower output pickup is moot. You can pretty much dial in just about any level of output you want. However, what you can't do with high output pickups is recover the "character" that's lost when it's wound too hot. I pretty much agree with that. The 58/15 Low Turn pickups in my PRS 594 follow this philosophy and are awesome sounding pickups. I have the Lollar Low Wind Imperials in my Semi hollow and they are also fantastic sounding to me.
I am not a huge fan of splitting coils on HB guitars as it's neither fish nor fowl to me. I never use the coil split sounds on my PRS. But I can also see the advantage of it for a gigging guitar and being able to get the most sounds out of the least amount of gear. But in my case and for my applications if I want a single coil sound I'd just pick up a Strat or Tele. I'm blessed to be able to have access to a lot of different guitars (and it's my standby excuse to convince my wife that I need yet another guitar....."but honey, it's a sound I don't have in my portfolio that I "need") I'm not familiar with the DGT wiring but I do occasionally lust after one. I don't care much for the jumbo frets but otherwise those are spectacular guitars.
Hmmm the dummy coil idea is interesting. I'm pretty sure Eric Johnson uses stacked Dimarzio single coil in the bridge position of his signature Strat guitar with one coil disabled. I generally don't have too much problem with single coil hum because I don't play at loud volumes and I usually ground the crap out of everything in my guitars. I've also recently started using shielding paint in the pickup cavities and really like the results. Here's a recent Tele build I just posted about yesterday. Super quiet guitar, I'm impressed. I just shielded the cavities and did not bother to run a dedicated ground wire to the jack. It's really quiet, I'm thinking about re-doing my other Tele's and Strats with it. It doesn't impact the tone like copper tape shielding does.
Re: experimenting with the 50's wiring. One idea is to make a cardboard template to hold the potentiometers out of the guitar. Then just use test leads to hook up the pickups and see how it sounds. You can try it both ways (50's and Modern) and mess with different caps before committing to solder (and crowbaring it all back into the guitar
As mentioned in a number of posts before this one, Im going to start with removing the wiring and changing it to 50s wiring. I wired this one cleanly on a cardboard before and it should be only a few changes. I’ll test that outside of the guitar to see how I like it. I remember trying out a Gibson True historic LP and they have 50s wiring. I found the pots to really react great and also the balance between the bridge/neck HB in the middle position was very nice to control.
I play a Fibenare Basic Jazz in which I installed 2 Bogner PAF pickups which are great sounding. Even for high gain I prefer vintage output pickups because of their clarity. Otherwise you need thinner copper wire with more wirings and higher output to get a similar open sound. I also have a number of different single coil guitars which I prefer over split HB.
Will keep you posted!
MichaelW
Well-known member
I've got some gas for one of the new Casino Coupes as a project guitar. I really like the idea of a scaled down Casino body. The standard 16" bodies feel a bit large to me. (Small guy here
. I'd be super stoked if they ever made a "Riviera Coupe" that would be pretty cool. But that's another project for another day Do you have an older Casino?
MichaelW
Well-known member
Freeway is a brand that makes these "trick" switches with extra positions. (Like a 6 position "3 way toggle")
I've never used them, I'd probably get lost and never find my way home...haha.
Freeway Switches
Edit: Some better pictures here
MichaelW
Well-known member
I tend to play my 2HB 4 control guitars mostly in the middle position with both pickups and then blend the ratio of the bridge vs neck with the volume pots. Many years ago I read that this was how Larry Carlton usually plays his famous ES335 on some of his classic solo's with Steely Dan and of course I thought if I did it, it would make me play JUST LIKE LARRY! Well, it didn't work, but I do like how it soundsI’m receiving the Kings hand today. I’ll build it anyway and maybe leave it out if the enclosure until I’ve build the v2. Looking forward to hearing which version you prefer?
As mentioned in a number of posts before this one, Im going to start with removing the wiring and changing it to 50s wiring. I wired this one cleanly on a cardboard before and it should be only a few changes. I’ll test that outside of the guitar to see how I like it. I remember trying out a Gibson True historic LP and they have 50s wiring. I found the pots to really react great and also the balance between the bridge/neck HB in the middle position was very nice to control.
I play a Fibenare Basic Jazz in which I installed 2 Bogner PAF pickups which are great sounding. Even for high gain I prefer vintage output pickups because of their clarity. Otherwise you need thinner copper wire with more wirings and higher output to get a similar open sound. I also have a number of different single coil guitars which I prefer over split HB.
Will keep you posted!
Those Fibenare's look really interesting! The Single Cut Professor Rahan looks like a cool guitar!
Bricksnbeatles
Member known well
A Rivera Coupe would be sick!I've got some gas for one of the new Casino Coupes as a project guitar. I really like the idea of a scaled down Casino body. The standard 16" bodies feel a bit large to me. (Small guy here
My casino is one of the Lennon Casinos from ~2011 in the natural finish
I probably would prefer a rotary switch then.
Steeley Dan and Larry are cool indeed! The Gibson True Historic had a great way to control this balance between the pickups and to me worked much better then modern wiring where I find the "mix" to be hard to set.I tend to play my 2HB 4 control guitars mostly in the middle position with both pickups and then blend the ratio of the bridge vs neck with the volume pots. Many years ago I read that this was how Larry Carlton usually plays his famous ES335 on some of his classic solo's with Steely Dan and of course I thought if I did it, it would make me play JUST LIKE LARRY! Well, it didn't work, but I do like how it sounds
Those Fibenare's look really interesting! The Single Cut Professor Rahan looks like a cool guitar!
I have something like this from Fibenare: http://www.fibenare-guitars.com/webpage/frontend/web/index.php?r=product/guitar&id=3
MichaelW
Well-known member
Those are cool looking guitars, I'd never heard of them. Just enough of a nod to the classic LP with some interesting aesthetic features. I generally don't like LP copies as it feels like "lawsuit avoidance" hahah. But I'm digging that Fibanare. Where are they made?
They’re made in Hungary.
MichaelW
Well-known member
Also great playing as usual, I think I need to take some lessons from you
almondcity
Well-known member
Resurrecting this thread instead of making a new one. I'm kinda curious about 50s wiring, anyone using it in a tele? I still don't think I understand how the knobs are interacting. I understand it's somewhat of a treble bleed for the volume knob but I haven't seen a good demo on it to fully grasp how this works
szukalski
Well-known member
Not a Tele, but I did it in a Strat recently and enjoy it. Completely fresh pickups though, so I didn't have a before to compare with.
Big Monk
Well-known member
Same here. SD SSL-1 set with 280k ohm Vintage Inspired Pickups pots. Middle/Neck and Bridge tone controls are both wired 50s style. For the kind of stuff I like playing, 50s wiring is essential.
You do have to get used to how the tone control acts as both a tone AND a presence control, i.e. it both brightens the tone and adds some punch and volume when you turn the control up. Since 50s wiring has the tone control on the output of the volume pot (wiper), this is to be expected.
