Tell me about non A440hz tunings

Harry Klippton

Not Interested
I came across this for the first time knowingly last night. I was trying to cop some licks from a song and just couldn't quite get the key right. After a little digging, I came across the suggestion that this particular song was tuned A431. After figuring out how to make my tuner do that, I retuned, and everything was sounding right (except my amp, which was responding slightly differently but I got that sorted).

I understand that it could just be a side effect of how the song was mastered, or it could have been a creative choice. What else would you say is "need to know" information about non A440 tunings?

That's happened to me before where I'm trying to figure out something by ear and can't quite get it right. Sometimes it's cuz I need a capo or a different tuning, but that's more familiar for me to suss out. Now I've got another strategy in my skill set too
 
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When I was in symphonic band, we all tuned to the first chair flute. A440 is the frequency of a perfect pitch A above middle C, and is the standard is the 1700s (I think).

That's about all I know about that.
 
Anything about non-440 pitch standards being the "frequency of the universe" or "healing" is arbitrary nonsense. As you know, A=440 is the standard concert pitch in most of the World for ages now. Due to something called pitch inflation, some orchestras deviate to as high as A=450, though generally it's more along the lines of A=442 or so, to sound comparitavely punchier and more lively than other neighboring areas orchestras.

The A=432 movement is some pseudoscientific nonsense with loads of baked-in antisemitism, scientific-illiteracy, and Eastern-Tokenism. The actual history of A=432 is that Italian composer Giuseppe Verdi's preference was for a tuning standard slightly less than the French A=435 standard of the time, though there wasn't really a concrete way of determining exact measurements of hertz, so all tuning forks from the time were completely arbitrary– it was just about matching pitch and having a locally standardized tone of reference, rather than anything scientifically based. Verdi's tuning fork measures as roughly A=432, but to be clear, tuning standards of the time were almost entirely arbitrary. The only thing that does matter and that ever did really matter is the ratios between the notes; that is to say, the temperament system used, whether that's just intonation, 12-tone equal temperament, some other TET/EDO system, a meantime system, or something else.

The only time where non-440 tuning standards come into practice for legitimate cause is:
  1. Historical music: While there was no true set pitch standard for the Baroque era, the median pitch of tuning forks of the period is roughly 415hz, so A=415 is commonly used for historically accurate performance of baroque pieces. 415hz is extremely close to an Ab in A=440 however, so the main takeaway is that Baroque compositions should be transposed to be played a semitone lower than written, and this is what's commonly done in most historical performances that aren't going to the lengths of accuracy to also acquire instruments of period correct construction and wear period correct attire.
  2. Pitch matching, which itself falls into a few sub-categories:
    1. Fixed-pitch instrumentation or samples: Let's say you are playing in an ensemble with an organ. You can't retune the organ, and it may not be perfectly analogous to an A=440 pitch standard, either due to pitch degradation with age, lack of standardization when it was created, electrical differences causing a tone wheel organ to play slightly higher or lower due to motor speed, etc. In that case, all other instruments would tune with the fixed-pitch/non-tunable instrument as their reference pitch. This is how most bands have tuned for decades when there's a piano, electric piano, analog synthesizer, or organ involved. This is also no different from when you tune your guitar to be in tune with itself relative to one arbitrary string, without knowing if you're tuned to A=440 or not- that's why so many live recording of bands in the 60s and 70s will incredibly inconsistent, with some recordings being around a quarter step sharp, or others being 1/4 or 3/4 steps flat. Believe it or not, Led Zeppelin, AC/DC, and Van Halen weren't trying to tune to A=432 🤣– they were just tuning to each other.
    2. Resonance: You might tune to the resonance of a room to induce feedback more easily, or you might tune to avoid the resonance of a room to stave off unwanted feedback. An instrument might have a wolf tone at a certain pitch standard, but once you tune a few cents up or down, it's no longer inline with any of the chromatic pitches you'll be using. It's all fair game, and it's pretty common.
    3. Poorly-synchronized Analog recordings: You've surely heard records where everything is, say, 10c sharp/flat on a record, so it sounds crappy when you try to play along. It's not likely that the band recorded at A=432 to be spiritual or A=420 or A=469 for the memes; its most likely that somewhere in the production chain, one of the tape machines was running at slightly the wrong speed. It could be in the recording stage, or when the tapes were bounced to a new machine for the mix down, or the mastering stage, or even when cutting the lacquer stampers for a vinyl release. You have a lot of stages in the recording process where you're relying on crude motorized machines to spin at an exact speed, and it's easy to have electrical or mechanical inconsistencies turn, say, 30in/s into 29.9 in/s. Who's to say that your turntable is running at 33 1/3 rpm, and not 32 7/8 rpm? Lot's of ways you can accidentally drift from the recorded pitch, and it takes more than just a few cents of deviation for it to noticeably mess of the formants of vocals. That's why a lot of turntables have speed adjustment. Digital stuff is all based on bitrates and crystal oscillators with much more precision, so it's not a big issue, but in the analog domain, anything goes!
 
Anything about non-440 pitch standards being the "frequency of the universe" or "healing" is arbitrary nonsense. As you know, A=440 is the standard concert pitch in most of the World for ages now. Due to something called pitch inflation, some orchestras deviate to as high as A=450, though generally it's more along the lines of A=442 or so, to sound comparitavely punchier and more lively than other neighboring areas orchestras.

The A=432 movement is some pseudoscientific nonsense with loads of baked-in antisemitism, scientific-illiteracy, and Eastern-Tokenism. The actual history of A=432 is that Italian composer Giuseppe Verdi's preference was for a tuning standard slightly less than the French A=435 standard of the time, though there wasn't really a concrete way of determining exact measurements of hertz, so all tuning forks from the time were completely arbitrary– it was just about matching pitch and having a locally standardized tone of reference, rather than anything scientifically based. Verdi's tuning fork measures as roughly A=432, but to be clear, tuning standards of the time were almost entirely arbitrary. The only thing that does matter and that ever did really matter is the ratios between the notes; that is to say, the temperament system used, whether that's just intonation, 12-tone equal temperament, some other TET/EDO system, a meantime system, or something else.

The only time where non-440 tuning standards come into practice for legitimate cause is:
  1. Historical music: While there was no true set pitch standard for the Baroque era, the median pitch of tuning forks of the period is roughly 415hz, so A=415 is commonly used for historically accurate performance of baroque pieces. 415hz is extremely close to an Ab in A=440 however, so the main takeaway is that Baroque compositions should be transposed to be played a semitone lower than written, and this is what's commonly done in most historical performances that aren't going to the lengths of accuracy to also acquire instruments of period correct construction and wear period correct attire.
  2. Pitch matching, which itself falls into a few sub-categories:
    1. Fixed-pitch instrumentation or samples: Let's say you are playing in an ensemble with an organ. You can't retune the organ, and it may not be perfectly analogous to an A=440 pitch standard, either due to pitch degradation with age, lack of standardization when it was created, electrical differences causing a tone wheel organ to play slightly higher or lower due to motor speed, etc. In that case, all other instruments would tune with the fixed-pitch/non-tunable instrument as their reference pitch. This is how most bands have tuned for decades when there's a piano, electric piano, analog synthesizer, or organ involved. This is also no different from when you tune your guitar to be in tune with itself relative to one arbitrary string, without knowing if you're tuned to A=440 or not- that's why so many live recording of bands in the 60s and 70s will incredibly inconsistent, with some recordings being around a quarter step sharp, or others being 1/4 or 3/4 steps flat. Believe it or not, Led Zeppelin, AC/DC, and Van Halen weren't trying to tune to A=432 🤣– they were just tuning to each other.
    2. Resonance: You might tune to the resonance of a room to induce feedback more easily, or you might tune to avoid the resonance of a room to stave off unwanted feedback. An instrument might have a wolf tone at a certain pitch standard, but once you tune a few cents up or down, it's no longer inline with any of the chromatic pitches you'll be using. It's all fair game, and it's pretty common.
    3. Poorly-synchronized Analog recordings: You've surely heard records where everything is, say, 10c sharp/flat on a record, so it sounds crappy when you try to play along. It's not likely that the band recorded at A=432 to be spiritual or A=420 or A=469 for the memes; its most likely that somewhere in the production chain, one of the tape machines was running at slightly the wrong speed. It could be in the recording stage, or when the tapes were bounced to a new machine for the mix down, or the mastering stage, or even when cutting the lacquer stampers for a vinyl release. You have a lot of stages in the recording process where you're relying on crude motorized machines to spin at an exact speed, and it's easy to have electrical or mechanical inconsistencies turn, say, 30in/s into 29.9 in/s. Who's to say that your turntable is running at 33 1/3 rpm, and not 32 7/8 rpm? Lot's of ways you can accidentally drift from the recorded pitch, and it takes more than just a few cents of deviation for it to noticeably mess of the formants of vocals. That's why a lot of turntables have speed adjustment. Digital stuff is all based on bitrates and crystal oscillators with much more precision, so it's not a big issue, but in the analog domain, anything goes!
Thanks for the thorough response. This is pretty much what I had seen by poking around online last night.

In the case of the song I was trying to play along to last night, I'm certain it wasn't on purpose, and 431Hz wasn't a typo for 432. It really was 431Hz. And yes, trying to play along to records has always frustrated me because my turntable isn't spinning at 33 1/3 rpm
 
I used to listen to a punk record where they tuned their guitars a little flat and then play along with a xylophone. The name escapes me right now. It's an effective shortcut to dissonance.
 
Thanks for the thorough response. This is pretty much what I had seen by poking around online last night.

In the case of the song I was trying to play along to last night, I'm certain it wasn't on purpose, and 431Hz wasn't a typo for 432. It really was 431Hz. And yes, trying to play along to records has always frustrated me because my turntable isn't spinning at 33 1/3 rpm
Glad I was able to help!
*insert Willem Dafoe meme, captioned: “You know, I’m something of a music theorist and historian myself”*

What song was it?
 
I've also heard of 432 being easier on vintage instruments, less string tension.

Tunings are like the standard plug, what's standard in N.America isn't the same standard on the European continent or Asia Pacific or...

Plugs of the World:
istock-1209338943[1].jpg





It's nice when everyone can play together, so pitch in and do your part to standardise on A440!
 
Don't bring a harmonica or piano to that jam!!!!

Had a friend telling me one of the Petty songs was in non-440. I told him it had been sped up to make it fit in a shorter time slot. He asked how I knew and I said "they don't sell harmonicas in anything other than 440" He got a funny look on his face, lol...
 
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