Only if you're picky about sticking up a bit
jk that's a good point, guess another quarter-inch won't hurt to make room up top
Treble bleed PCB
- Thread starter iamjackslackof
- Start date
jk that's a good point, guess another quarter-inch won't hurt to make room up top
1.25" x 0.5" all thru hole with everything mounted up top
And the control matrix:
Capacitor:
DDD - OUT OF CIRCUIT
UDD - 330pF
DUD - 680pF
DDU - 1000pF
UUU - 2000pF
Resistor:
DDD - OUT OF CIRCUIT
UDD - Capacitor only
DUD - 150K
DDU - 100K
DUU - 60K
(Didn't feel like typing out all 64 combos lol so here are the combos that Mythos thought important)
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Unverified but they look right to me, here's the DipTrace files and Gerber ZIPs if anyone wants to try 'em out, I bet they'll be a few cents each tops (the "ALL ON TOP" board is 1.25" x 0.5", the "TRIMPOT" board is 1.00" x 0.5")
And I always said kinda tongue in cheek that series is the only right way. It’s the right way that worked best for me. I encourage trying both to see what you like.
The only thing I’d encourage trying on the one with 4 caps/ 3 resistors is try smaller caps vs larger and larger resistors vs smaller- makes the effect more subtle
Like many things- there is no wrong answer
Seems like at least a cursory search for treble bleeds is that most people favor caps under 1nF and resistors in the 100-200K range, how far outside of that range/what resistor and cap combos does it start to not sound “flat” anymore?
(Never played with ‘em myself because I’m not a volume knob-rider and mostly know of them when I see like $8-$15 reverb listings for a cap and a resistor twisted together which immediately gives me snake-oil vibes even if they say what they do on the tin.
All in and populated, the boards I did are still prolly less than a dollar.)
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For me, I found the 82-250pf range ideal (definitely on the low end), and bigger resistor (220k I believe), so really only 1 value smaller cap and 1 value larger resistor. May be interesting to try the 2nf cap, but I am thinking it would be too much and be less natural and transparent.
Which leads to another piece of the puzzle- not everyone wants it transparent- they want it to be a touch brighter when they roll off for clean, and want it a bit darker for when they go full up for solos. So many variables. And a reason why I’d love to see a board with all options and 2 roach clips, try what works the best essentially out of the guitar then hardwire what you want when you find it. For me, I’d use the PCB more as a tool than actually have it wired in the guitar. But that’s just me
So sockets then!
I’ve experimented a lot with treble bleeds and have come to 2 variants that work best for me personally: the Kinman series and the Suhr parallel.
Most of my guitars have treble bleeds and on a number of them I use a switch or push/pull to bring it in/out of the circuit. It’s quite handy to be able to enable/disable it, for instance with fuzz pedals the volume rolloff reacts quite differently.
I mostly use the Kinman treble bleed with 1nf and a 130k resistor in series. Recently I got a PRS SE 277 for which I replaced the pickups with Suhr SSV and SSH+ with a 5-way rotary and some more switchcraft. I tried the Suhr treble bleed with 680pf and 150k in parallel and it performed great in that guitar. As mentioned by @Giorfida some treble bleeds work better with other pickups/wiring.
So having a PCB with most common combinations, series/parallel selector and on/off option would be the most interesting for me.
Most of my guitars have treble bleeds and on a number of them I use a switch or push/pull to bring it in/out of the circuit. It’s quite handy to be able to enable/disable it, for instance with fuzz pedals the volume rolloff reacts quite differently.
I mostly use the Kinman treble bleed with 1nf and a 130k resistor in series. Recently I got a PRS SE 277 for which I replaced the pickups with Suhr SSV and SSH+ with a 5-way rotary and some more switchcraft. I tried the Suhr treble bleed with 680pf and 150k in parallel and it performed great in that guitar. As mentioned by @Giorfida some treble bleeds work better with other pickups/wiring.
So having a PCB with most common combinations, series/parallel selector and on/off option would be the most interesting for me.
How's this then? Went with some lower cap values that I think should cover the sweet spot range (but of course can be subbed for whatever), board size of 1.35" x 0.5". 4-way dip switch (or two 2-ways), first DIP for the parallel trimpot (labeled "P" because I'm so clever) then the next three are the caps.
It's the "DOUBLE TRIMPOT" ones in the Dropbox folder
with 100p, 220p, and 470p caps, you could combo them to get 100p, 220p, 320p, 470p, 570p, 690p, or 790p, and with all dip switches down that's same as "off"I’ve experimented a lot with treble bleeds and have come to 2 variants that work best for me personally: the Kinman series and the Suhr parallel.
Most of my guitars have treble bleeds and on a number of them I use a switch or push/pull to bring it in/out of the circuit. It’s quite handy to be able to enable/disable it, for instance with fuzz pedals the volume rolloff reacts quite differently.
I mostly use the Kinman treble bleed with 1nf and a 130k resistor in series. Recently I got a PRS SE 277 for which I replaced the pickups with Suhr SSV and SSH+ with a 5-way rotary and some more switchcraft. I tried the Suhr treble bleed with 680pf and 150k in parallel and it performed great in that guitar. As mentioned by @Giorfida some treble bleeds work better with other pickups/wiring.
So having a PCB with most common combinations, series/parallel selector and on/off option would be the most interesting for me.
Not sure if there's a good combo of three values that total closer to 1n that will cover as even a spread in the middle values but I haven't given it all that much thought
Kingtone is now offering 16 treble bleeds for their classic switch. I dont see any documentation of it in their online manual, only the switch options. Kinman is using a 1,2nf normally so that’s quite far off 790pwith 100p, 220p, and 470p caps, you could combo them to get 100p, 220p, 320p, 470p, 570p, 690p, or 790p, and with all dip switches down that's same as "off"
Not sure if there's a good combo of three values that total closer to 1n that will cover as even a spread in the middle values but I haven't given it all that much thought
Maybe add a 680 or 820p, and put the parallel resistor/trim pot on a jumper?
That's just ridiculous, for my own sake I refuse to believe there are *that* many shades of treble bleed that are different enough to justify having on a product
so then 220p, 470p, and 1n maybe, that'd give 220p, 470p, 690p, 1n, 1.2n, 1.5n, and 1.7n
120p, 330p and 680p: 120p-330p-450p-680p-800p, 1.01n, 1.13n. Definitely don’t see a need for more than 3-4 caps
Eh what the hell. Sixteen cap options (100p, 220p, 470p, 1n - so any value from 100p up to 1.8n in *ridiculously* fine-grained increments), a jumper to insert the "Parallel" trimpot. 1.315" x 0.5". I think this basically covers it all, right?
DOUBLE TRIMPOT V3
DOUBLE TRIMPOT V3
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JTEX
Well-known member
So much philosophy, so many different attempts to correct a fundamental flaw of the pickups/ volume pot / cable /amp interface. So much time and effort spent. And NONE of these solutions work equally well in all situations. They all depend on factors outside the designer's control, such as what kind of load follows the guitar, what pedals, amp, how long is the cable, maybe the phases of the moon. That's just bad design. The obvious solution is to use an onboard buffer to isolate the guitar from the effects of the load. No treble bleed is needed if there's no treble loss to begin with when rolling off the volume, regardless of what happens downstream. But no, putting a battery in a guitar is the Antichrist. Kills the mojo or whatever. Unless you're Clapton or something, then you get a pass.
/endrant
/endrant
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gonzo
Well-known member
A better treble bleed circuit | GuitarNutz 2
At maximum volume, a guitar pickup interacts with the impedances of the pots and other components, the cord capacitance and the amp input to give a characteristic response which includes a resonant
guitarnuts2.proboards.com
This is the gospel on all things treble bleed. Check the whole tread for the frequency graphs. One is not "better" than the other.
"I've had good success with this circuit. I originally saw it in a Suhr guitar, gotta give credit where credit is due.A better treble bleed circuit | GuitarNutz 2
At maximum volume, a guitar pickup interacts with the impedances of the pots and other components, the cord capacitance and the amp input to give a characteristic response which includes a resonant
This is the gospel on all things treble bleed. Check the whole tread for the frequency graphs. One is not "better" than the other.
It was a 680pf cap in parallel with a 150k resistor. But then that network is put in series with another 120k resistor. I used a 100k series resistor and really like the effect. It sounds very, very consistent all the way down to my ears."
"I hadnt seen the pro-series version before, which as shown on that Tele. Evidently it's a 1.2nF cap and 150k parallel resistor, all in series with 20k."
Quick perusal of the thread for values people like, and it seems @Giorfida had the right idea of having both series and parallel trimpots since it's come up a few times over there, at least these two setups are possible with the "DOUBLE TRIMPOT V3" board
