Varitone switch on a Squier Jaguar

[Alessio326]

I'm not actually sure this is the best forum section for this, but oh well

As said in the title, I'd like to modify my VM Jaguar by putting a single position varitone in place of the strangle switch.
The reason is I like the standard overwound pickups, but I'd love to access a more vintage tone sometimes and the standard switch kinda sucks fails in meeting my needs.
I once tried an Epiphone Lucille with a varitone on it and I really liked the sounds I could get from it, so I searched for the schematic but I must admit I'm encountering technical difficulties due to my poor small brain
Could you help me calculating the values for the components in order to get the sound I want with a smaller (100-47mH) and more available inductor? What is the actual math?
Thank you so much!


p.s. I found this analysis of the stock pickups: https://guitarnuts2.proboards.com/thread/8189/duncan-designed-jaguar-pickups-analysis

 

[gonzo]

I went down this rabbit hole last year. I don't think I found a formula, nor could I find a transformer to supposed Gibson henrys specs. (It's debatable the online schematics are totally correct). I ended up using a easily obtainable transformer and ballparking the cap values while testing. I used some YouTube varitone videos to compare. If you go with the Tayda ty-250 I have some values you might like. I would imagine a smaller henry inductor would make the cap values wildly off. Odd values that might not be easy to find. I do dig the varitone on a few settings, so I worked out my own thing.

 

[gonzo]

Looked at my notes, maybe you could compare the other schematics and calculate something

10.29 Henry transformer
Position 2= .0033uF
3 = .0047uF
They sound great like bb king
4 ( bass notched) = .1 uF
These sound like bad transistor radios
5= .22 uF
6= .47uf ( didn't use this one mine, just made it a standard cap to ground for a treble cut)

 

[Dumpster D]

Was looking to wire a varitone switch into a stomp box, then you could just plug different guitars in...I wrote down the schematic in my book, someone posted it with a phase inversion switch then you have double the tonality options, it looked neat, I guess just ordering the parts was where I stalled out...and I never went for it.

Also you could install a no-load tone pot into your guitar that bypasses the tone section of the guitar if you wanted to, why would you do that?

I don't know why, forget it mentioned it, honestly leave everything stock....or don't...go totally custom crazy..there's no limit to your imagination and creativity...

..You'd have to research and see what you can find.

So what is 'The tone you want' exactly? More vintage? Is that it?

Just honestly curious what that means to you...'vintage tone' ....I mean, there's a whole thing about that, scatterwound pickups for example...

Maybe what makes something vintage is in the imperfection?

I had a 'vintage' guitar wriing book from the mid 1980's when people were doing some high powered mods to their guitars, and there was a few sidenotes on why the early fender guitars that people consider to have some kind of mystical fricken tone as being just poorly wound mass produced pickups that were not really evolded yet into the more high powered pickups in the mid to late 1970's

I think the book said something about those pickups sounding like 1959 'dog breath' ...and I quote.

So what might be vintage tone to some might just be dog breath to others. Just something to think about.

You don't need Rocket appliances to get it right, just have fun, play around with your capacitor values, Nothing matter except having fun and experimenting, then you end up with something that is more unique that way, maybe it won't be 'correct' to original specs but sounding like someone else is not important, find your own tone.

It all depends, what guitar, amp etc, maybe you'll decide you hate the varitone, maybe you'll love it, you know?

A pre-build one costs $100 bucks, oh so it must be good then? I dunno...maybe? Who knows?

A few people said it's an antique and totally prehistoric junk.

I did some preliminary homework studying the varitone switch, and read a lot of things people had to say abour capacitor values, and wrote it down in my book, and thought I'd go from there...honestly just have to do your own research and development, all your hard work will pay off when you finally decide you want to build something.

It took me awhile to decide what capacitors might work best, ceramic or poly?

Someone said Ceramics are a little bit microphonic so that might be cool.

It just made more sense to me as a passive stomp box, then I don't have to mod my guitar and stuff, it doesn't look like a lot of people are into it anyway.

I think it's great, you could totally just do it, and be the first of all your friends to say you did it.

 

[Dumpster D]

4 ( bass notched) = .1 uF
These sound like bad transistor radios

I like using transistor radios for guitar amps, so I'd probably love it.

I'll tell you this much, there's a guitar I bought at a thrift store, someone had wired two .47 tone capacitors in parallel intisde the guitar to my bewilderment..You do the math.

Does it sound good, honestly it must be those ceramic humbuckers, but yeah, the tone knob obviously has a huge cut in it...That said, I've always got my controlls dimed, amps and guitar...That's just how it is around here.

"Everything louder than everything else"

 

[Alessio326]

Thank you all!
To answer some question:
1) I'd prefer using a smaller inductor and a larger value capacitor due to limited space in a typical jaguar routing... while a semihollow could fit a typical 1,5H inductor, it would prove quite tricky on a standard jaguar since such components are pretty big

2) to me, a vintage sound is way less prominent in the low mids, but retains some bass and treble, with kind of a woody characteristic

I may have found some values for a 150mH inductor using an online filter calculator, but I won't be able to try this in a month or so. Here is a screen from my phone, I went for the same data as for the 1,5H version:

 

[Alessio326]

Thank you all!
To answer some question:
1) I'd prefer using a smaller inductor and a larger value capacitor due to limited space in a typical jaguar routing... while a semihollow could fit a typical 1,5H inductor, it would prove quite tricky on a standard jaguar since such components are pretty big

2) to me, a vintage sound is way less prominent in the low mids, but retains some bass and treble, with kind of a woody characteristic

I may have found some values for a 150mH inductor using an online filter calculator, but I won't be able to try this in a month or so. Here is a screen from my phone, I went for the same data as for the 1,5H version:

p.s. If someone would like to try it before I do, please post your results!

 

[Dumpster D]

Here's what I put down in my book and it may or may not be correct or what might be considered 'standard'

Also kindly note that I have no idea what I'm doing and couldn't tell you if my shoes are on the right foot half the time.

1.5 henry choke (Whether that will be the part that you could source?)

1- 3.3nf (or) 1.1nf/ 4.7nf
2- 1nf
3- 3.3nf
4- 0.01 uf (high cut)
5- 0.033 uf (mid cut)
6- 0.01 uf (Jazz tone)

I made some notes such as decreasing the inductance will raise the resonant frequency considerably, so yeah that might be important when selecting your parts.

TLO18 2.5h choke equals more frequency cut

TL021 1.5 'normal'

 

[Feral Feline]

re TY-250

Just a point of clarification, the TY-250 is a Triad Magnetics product that you can source from places other than Tayda;
worth mentioning for those who can't/don't shop at Tayda or already have an order pending at Mouser, DigiKey etc and don't want to special-order one piece from Tayda because $$$hipping...

Big fan of the TY-250, here, but it should also be noted it's an arachnid and not an insect (ie 8-legged, not six).

 

[Dumpster D]

re TY-250

Just a point of clarification, the TY-250 is a Triad Magnetics product that you can source from places other than Tayda;
worth mentioning for those who can't/don't shop at Tayda or already have an order pending at Mouser, DigiKey etc and don't want to special-order one piece from Tayda because $$$hipping...

Big fan of the TY-250, here, but it should also be noted it's an arachnid and not an insect (ie 8-legged, not six).

I'm trying to remember the part number it must have been Mouser that had them, Jameco might not have anything.

Ah it's in my book as:

42TM09 (1.5h) Mouser part# 42TLO21-RC

I guess it's the Tayda one, Somewhere I have it written there's a Hammond one? I am wondering where I could recycle one from from old electronics at a thrift store for example, might be a good source if I knew where to look....this is where my varitone stomp project stalled out and life got in the way in the meantime. I'd still like to build one of these someday maybe this winter?

What's the transformer inside an Octavia circuit? That was another build on the list that I never got around to yet.

Offhand I can't remember and haven't done any real homework or had the experience to know about. These little Transformers.

All I know is that they fail for one reason or another in those oldschool XLR to Quarter inch transformers that were meant to fit those chrome Strat style input jacks. I guess same reason pickups go microphonic.

More practical question at this point, if I'm putting in a parts order, should I go ahead and order some Poly as well as ceramics and build two varitones to compare? or mix and match even?!?

Might as well for the price of a pre-built varitone switch build several for myself and compare?

Side note**

BB kings guitar was a hollow body, and those ceramic caps are slightly microphonic....there must be some secret sauce with all the resonance happening as opposed to a solid body guitar, you know? I'd like to think at least there's a relationship there, between the worms and the spice.

I figure you have to buy in bulk anyway, might as well play around.

What's your opinion on a varitone switch, would you build a passive stomp with one?

 

[Feral Feline]

...

What's the transformer inside an Octavia circuit? That was another build on the list that I never got around to yet.

...

Octavia :: 42TM022 is the most common used nowadays, but others 42TU011, LT44, 42TM002, etc

There are Octavia-circuits that eschew a transformer altogether such Chuck D Bones' and Roger Mayer's, plus others.


There is this list of PPCB projects that contain transformers.

Thread 'TRANSFORMERS, all PPCB projects, in disguise... (& hall-of-infamous inductors)'

Apr 27, 2022

Made a list of all the transformer-equipped projects here, because when you search the PPCB shop for "Transformer", the only thing that comes up is the Fasel Inductor Adapter.
The Simulcast and Duocast do not come up in the search, not the Mystery Machine, Conquerer nope, nor does the Octanaut... none of the projects.

So here's the list, I've included projects with inductors:

Project	Transformer or Inductor
British Royalty OD	TY-141P

...

• Feral Feline
• Replies: 19
• Forum: General Questions

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PS: A Hammond, you say, hmm... maybe a 156R, (1.5H) filter choke. 156R Spec PDF
Something from the Hammond studio-grade transformer 1140 series?

 

[gonzo]

Just make sure you get a frequency spec within guitar range or a full audio range transformer and probably not a power step up or down tranny.

BB King's signature Lucille had no f holes, so it didn't have feedback problems, but it's resonate. Great guitars. The other "Kings" in blues liked this switch as well, especially positions 2 and 3 it seems.

Also, be careful of a lot of premade "varitones" out there. Some people are trying to pass off a simple cap to ground selector switch as such. They aren't notch filters with an inductor magnet.

 

[Alessio326]

Ok there's something I don't understand about those mini transformers: how should they be wired for this use? Only the primary? Only the secondary? Both in series?