NGD: Black Friday Haul #1 - PRS

[Guardians of the analog]

I think I have hijacked this thread more than enough… back to your regularly scheduled program.

 

[Joben Magooch]

PRS SE's are another one of those guitars for me like the CV Squiers that are just stupid good nowadays. I too felt the older ones (back when the SE line was relatively new) were kind of meh but these days they are so nice.
I've said it before regarding the CV/vintage modified Squier's and it's the same with these: it's not just nice "for the money" but just flat-out a nice instrument. The quality that some of these factories can crank out for even their lower-end stuff is just astounding to me. 10, 15, 20 years ago to get a guitar the price of a current-production PRS SE, CV Squier, etc you probably would've had to pay 2, 3x as much. It's hard for me to overstae just how much progress there has been in that area IMO.

Anyways, I need to get around to trying some of Porter's humbuckers. I've always heard great things about the Anthems (their "traditional" PAF, A5 I think). I assume you got the Anthem Plus (A4)? I've played a handful of their single coils and was a big fan, but haven't played any of their humbuckers yet. I would agree that the covered pickups are definitely a big improvement. I'm kind of weirdly picky about that though, I almost always prefer covered and typically only dig zebra pickups on a few specific types of Burst LP's... To each their own

I'm curious as to what the discussion was regarding Switchcraft vs Pure Tone? I really like the Pure Tone jacks and would be interested to hear what your reservations/reasons for switching were.

 

[MichaelW]

PRS SE's are another one of those guitars for me like the CV Squiers that are just stupid good nowadays. I too felt the older ones (back when the SE line was relatively new) were kind of meh but these days they are so nice.
I've said it before regarding the CV/vintage modified Squier's and it's the same with these: it's not just nice "for the money" but just flat-out a nice instrument. The quality that some of these factories can crank out for even their lower-end stuff is just astounding to me. 10, 15, 20 years ago to get a guitar the price of a current-production PRS SE, CV Squier, etc you probably would've had to pay 2, 3x as much. It's hard for me to overstae just how much progress there has been in that area IMO.

Anyways, I need to get around to trying some of Porter's humbuckers. I've always heard great things about the Anthems (their "traditional" PAF, A5 I think). I assume you got the Anthem Plus (A4)? I've played a handful of their single coils and was a big fan, but haven't played any of their humbuckers yet. I would agree that the covered pickups are definitely a big improvement. I'm kind of weirdly picky about that though, I almost always prefer covered and typically only dig zebra pickups on a few specific types of Burst LP's... To each their own

I'm curious as to what the discussion was regarding Switchcraft vs Pure Tone? I really like the Pure Tone jacks and would be interested to hear what your reservations/reasons for switching were.

Yah I got the A4's. They're really good sounding pickups. Lots of rich harmonics and a bit of the "fluffy-hollow-honk" of a good PAF.

But I I'm really more of a low output kind of guy. As mentioned these were intended for another guitar but I just couldn't resist putting them in.
I may wind up getting another set of the standard A5 Anthems for this guitar, or possibly a set of the Wolftone Legends or Dr. Vintage.
I have a set of Lollar Imperial Low Wind's in my Eastman and I really like them a lot, but not $400 worth of liking them..... . Lot's of other good PAF choices out there these days.

Another option I'm toying with is just getting a single Anthem PAF A5 (~7.5-ish k) then moving the current A2 neck pickup into the bridge position. (8.4k) That might work out well. But then I'll have one oddball extra pickup heh.....

The stock 245 SE's are actually pretty nice sounding and relatively low output (for PRS). They were 8.0k neck 8.2k bridge. Not sure what kind of magnets are in them though. Not even sure they're Alnico, they might be ceramic. But they sound good enough that I'm planning to put them in my Warmoth Strat that I've been struggling with trying to find some HB sized P90's that actually sound good. I've pretty much given up and now planning to put two HB's in there with a 5 way super switch. I haven't completely decided on the wiring schema though. That Warmoth is a bright guitar and could use some darker sounding pickups.

Many years ago, my first PRS was one of the original CE bolt ons. It had their old 5 way rotary switch. The wiring scheme was 1-Bridge, 2-Inner coils split series, 3 - both HB's, 4- Outer coils split Parallel, and 5 Neck HB.

I remember those were all very useful tones. If I can figure out how to reproduce that with a 5 way super switch I might try that.

Another scheme that I'm interested in the Suhr Alt-T double HB switching. Which is similar to the PRS. it's 1- Bridge, 2- Neck outer coil, bridge inner coil split and parallel (I think), then 3- both HB, 2- Neck single, 1- Neck HB.

Anyway, something like that.

 

[MichaelW]

I'm curious as to what the discussion was regarding Switchcraft vs Pure Tone? I really like the Pure Tone jacks and would be interested to hear what your reservations/reasons for switching were.

I wanted to circle back to this because I've made quite a few comments singing the praises of the Puretones. On paper it makes sense and in practice, I've used them about 5 or 6 times with no issues....until my Red Strat build. When I installed the set of EJ pick ups I had some loud humming, like an open ground. Turned out to be a couple of different issues but one of the issues was that the jack was making intermittent ground contact on the sleeve of the Puretone. I took it out and inspected it a little closer. The tabs were fine for the tip but the sleeve was somehow loose.

I was chatting with Mr. Bones our Mr. Smarty-Pants of all thing electrical a couple months ago and somehow we got to chatting about Puretones and this is what he said:

IMO, the Switchcraft is a superior design because the tip contact is long and curves back on itself. The long contact is able to flex over most of it's length, making it very compliant. The PureTone has the feature I don't like: stubby contacts with the flexing concentrated in a very small area. If one is concerned about the integrity of the sleeve contact on a Switchcraft jack (I'm not), one could install a stereo jack and wire the ring contact to the sleeve.

So, turns out that was a prophetic statement and examining the Puretone, he was right, it was those stubby contacts not flexing enough that was causing the intermittent sleeve contact issue. (b*st*rd is always right )

I have NEVER had an issue with using genuine SwitchCraft jacks on either pedals or guitars, so going back to those. Plus, while pricey for a pair of them for pedals, they're 1/3 the cost of the Puretones and I always have a few on hand.

 

[Guardians of the analog]

You guys really hear that much of a difference in pickups? I don't TBH. I think my that the only two things that make a difference is the magnets and how hot it's wound. Wire thickness just translates to turns or how how you can make it, which to me translates to how bright or how dark it will be. The hotter the pickup the darker it starts to get and how early it makes the preamp breakup. This can also translate to articulation I suppose. The magnets to be don't have a sound but what frequency response and the feel of the pickup. Now once you start getting into Low wind PAF and single coils, assuming the output and magnets are the same I think they all pretty much sound the same. I don't have Eric Johnson ears but I can't see paying more because someone said it's better but it sounds the same with my shitty playing in my basement.

 

[MichaelW]

You guys really hear that much of a difference in pickups? I don't TBH. I think my that the only two things that make a difference is the magnets and how hot it's wound. Wire thickness just translates to turns or how how you can make it, which to me translates to how bright or how dark it will be. The hotter the pickup the darker it starts to get and how early it makes the preamp breakup. This can also translate to articulation I suppose. The magnets to be don't have a sound but what frequency response and the feel of the pickup. Now once you start getting into Low wind PAF and single coils, assuming the output and magnets are the same I think they all pretty much sound the same. I don't have Eric Johnson ears but I can't see paying more because someone said it's better but it sounds the same with my shitty playing in my basement.

Well, I can't speak for anyone else, but I certainly do. And it's not necessarily the "premium" brand or anything. There are some GFS pickups that I love, sound freaking awesome. As well as my no-name Korean made Filtertron.

But then, getting into the anal details of chasing tone is part of what I enjoy about my guitar playing hobby. Just like you enjoy the whole process of planning out graphics that make a statement about your pedal builds where I personally don't even mark my knobs heh. I greatly appreciate your skill and effort and level of detail and I appreciate how much you enjoy it. But I'm just not there.....

Having said that, I don't hear the difference in battery brands....sooo......not Eric Johnson quite......

 

[SillyOctpuss]

Just talking about humbuckers I'd say the baseplate thickness, magnet type and size, type of wire, winding pattern, amount of wire wound, whether the pickup is potted or not, if there is a cover or not, the thickness and material of the cover can all affect the sound of a pickup.

I couldn't listen to a sound sample of a humbucker in insolation and tell you what it was but I can definitely hear the difference if I remove the cover or change the magnet in a pickup I already have.

When I have pickups wound there's also things I request purely because I think they look cool. I always ask for zebra bobbins on humbuckers, even if I spec covers. I don't care if you can't see them I know they're there and they make me happy. Always give me the option of removing the covers later.

A bit like fancy caps on the tone control. I'll add one purely because they look cool.

 

[MichaelW]

@Guardians of the analog
@MichaelW
@SillyOctpuss

Sorry for the name drops, but I didn’t want to quote all the stuff you wrote. I’m referencing post 49, 50, and 51 above.

I follow the Asymptotic Theory of Hobbies. We get started in a hobby and make HUGE gains in the beginning and then, if you remember your higher level math well enough, start to asymptotically approach some ideal of perfection in our interested and skills in that hobby, i.e. incrementally approach it but never actually reach it.

In short, we make the 95% gains, so to speak, then chase those 1% mods and tweaks forever.

I agree with many of the point in the three posts I’ve reference. I most agree with Chris’s sentiments though: Once you make the “big” gains you are left to battle over the minutia that really doesn’t matter.

Case in point: I’m a recent convert to single coils but a longtime devotee and chaser of PAF style humbucker tones. Anything lower than 8.5k or so all sounds mostly the same to me, with major differences really just coming from potting and magnets

To me, the basic humbucker construction with any materials, excluding potting or magnets, is like 90% of the tone.

Potting accounts for another 4% and another 5% for magnets. That leaves the rest of the “Mojo” stuff I hear about about 1%.

Now added some gain and that 1% nuance goes away.

Short story long: The basic PAF recipe with basic, run of the mill type components, gets you most of the way there.

Doesn’t mean it’s not fun to chase that last few percent but to me, most unpotted, uncovered A2 or A5 PAFs all sound the same.

This coming from the man responsible for all the Univibe and BMP mods I've ever seen........

 

[MichaelW]

@Guardians of the analog
@MichaelW
@SillyOctpuss

Sorry for the name drops, but I didn’t want to quote all the stuff you wrote. I’m referencing post 49, 50, and 51 above.

I follow the Asymptotic Theory of Hobbies. We get started in a hobby and make HUGE gains in the beginning and then, if you remember your higher level math well enough, start to asymptotically approach some ideal of perfection in our interested and skills in that hobby, i.e. incrementally approach it but never actually reach it.

In short, we make the 95% gains, so to speak, then chase those 1% mods and tweaks forever.

I agree with many of the point in the three posts I’ve reference. I most agree with Chris’s sentiments though: Once you make the “big” gains you are left to battle over the minutia that really doesn’t matter.

Case in point: I’m a recent convert to single coils but a longtime devotee and chaser of PAF style humbucker tones. Anything lower than 8.5k or so all sounds mostly the same to me, with major differences really just coming from potting and magnets

To me, the basic humbucker construction with any materials, excluding potting or magnets, is like 90% of the tone.

Potting accounts for another 4% and another 5% for magnets. That leaves the rest of the “Mojo” stuff I hear about about 1%.

Now added some gain and that 1% nuance goes away.

Short story long: The basic PAF recipe with basic, run of the mill type components, gets you most of the way there.

Doesn’t mean it’s not fun to chase that last few percent but to me, most unpotted, uncovered A2 or A5 PAFs all sound the same.

In all seriousness, I'm exactly the opposite when it comes HB's, anything over ~8.5k starts to sound the same to me, it's in the lower wind, lower output where I hear the more "character differences" in pickup design. Not better or worse, just "different". I have my preferences in those differences. Some low wind pickups sound "flat" and one dimensional to me. While others sound more dynamic and 3 dimensional. The hotter the output, the more of that "flattening" I hear.

 

[Guardians of the analog]

In all seriousness, I'm exactly the opposite when it comes HB's, anything over ~8.5k starts to sound the same to me, it's in the lower wind, lower output where I hear the more "character differences" in pickup design. Not better or worse, just "different". I have my preferences in those differences. Some low wind pickups sound "flat" and one dimensional to me. While others sound more dynamic and 3 dimensional. The hotter the output, the more of that "flattening" I hear.

I guess to me, if I took all variables out of the equation like new strings, a loop reamped, and listened back to two sets of similar pickups I couldn't tell you what was what in a blind taste test. I think we hear what we want a lot of times. Once I throw a pedal on I usually lose what I thought I heard. I feel like this about pedals as well as other gear. I want something tangible that's obvious. Build a TS and then build another overdrive and you feel it's so much better only to find out its a TS with two value changes. I've learned no matter what I will sound like me so I would rather focus on either really different tones than 1% different than what I already have or try to play better/different. I'm not splitting hairs about the refinements of French vanilla ice cream over vanilla, I'm gonna try something different because vanilla is vanilla

 

[SillyOctpuss]

For me it's exactly the same as pedals. If I A/B to different spec PAfs or modded tubescreamers then I can hear the differences and will probably prefer one over the other, however, If I pick either of them and live with it or test them weeks apart then they'll just sound like a set of pafs or a tubescreamer.

Trying out different transistors in my Fuzzface yielded very different results (as far as fuzz face pedals go) but if I ran them into a cranked Marshall at gig level then I probably wouldn't hear the difference.

It's still fun to experiment. Like @MichaelW I've had cheap pickups I loved e.g. The stock pickups in my classic vibe tele and pretty expensive pickups like my Montys PAfs. Generally I'm done with my pickup rabbit hole. These days if I need new pickups I just call Marc at Mojo, tell him what the guitar is, what sort of music I'm playing or tones I'm after and just take what he recommends. I've been buying his pickups for years and he knows my tastes.

Tbh whatever inspires someone to play is all good as far as I'm concerned. I don't bother getting into arguments about what someone can or can't hear now.

 

[Guardians of the analog]

Tbh whatever inspires someone to play is all good as far as I'm concerned. I don't bother getting into arguments about what someone can or can't hear now.

I agree and I wasn't trying to argue, I was trying to see if people really could hear that big a difference. If people dig it then that's cool, I'm glad someone is keeping the gear companies in buisness. I took philosophy in college and ain't been right since, I like seeing how the mind works. I'm just glad people are building every yats to tell me that it sounds like a TS so I don't have to @MichaelW you can eat vanilla ice cream all you want, I'm gonna try to other 30 flavors

 

[SillyOctpuss]

I agree and I wasn't trying to argue, I was trying to see if people really could hear that big a difference. If people dig it then that's cool, I'm glad someone is keeping the gear companies in buisness. I took philosophy in college and ain't been right since, I like seeing how the mind works. I'm just glad people are building every yats to tell me that it sounds like a TS so I don't have to @MichaelW you can eat vanilla ice cream all you want, I'm gonna try to other 30 flavors

Oh that last statement wasn't aimed at you. That was about me. I used to be quite argumentative about things that people couldn't possibly hear e.g. The hype train for Klone flavour of the month but I can't be bothered anymore.

 

[SillyOctpuss]

Side not for anyone looking: I installed one of those Strat Bridge Pickup baseplates on the SSL-1s that @Guardians of the analog gifted me and they actually do work, which was a pleasant surprise, especially given the current topic of discussion.

I use a baseplate on my strat bridge pickup as well. I only fitted it earlier this year and it's the first time I've ever enjoyed a strat bridge pickup. Definitely recommended .

It still sounds like my strat but it takes a step in the direction of a tele.

 

[SillyOctpuss]

It didn't actually do what most advertised but it did help to balance the bridge better with the other pickups which was really helpful.

My bridge unit definitely thickened up a bit. It's not as thin and trebly sounding as it was before. It still sounds like the same pickup but more muscular. I absolutely love it and it made my bridge pickup useable for the first time.

 

[MichaelW]

My bridge unit definitely thickened up a bit. It's not as thin and trebly sounding as it was before. It still sounds like the same pickup but more muscular. I absolutely love it and it made my bridge pickup useable for the first time.

Ok, you guys are putting a gaping rabbit hole in front of me I'm about to step into with all this talk about baseplates and "thickening up" Strat bridge pickups........

 

[MichaelW]

I agree and I wasn't trying to argue, I was trying to see if people really could hear that big a difference. If people dig it then that's cool, I'm glad someone is keeping the gear companies in buisness. I took philosophy in college and ain't been right since, I like seeing how the mind works. I'm just glad people are building every yats to tell me that it sounds like a TS so I don't have to @MichaelW you can eat vanilla ice cream all you want, I'm gonna try to other 30 flavors

ok, I'm a little bit ashamed to admit I ALWAYS get the same flavor ice cream (when I do eat ice cream). At Baskin and Robbin it's a scoop of Pralines and Cream on top of a scoop of peanut butter/chocolate....at Bruesters is plain old vanilla chocolate chip. Every time........just not interested in anything else. Now when it comes to pickups, guitars and pedals, completely different story....I want to try every variety of YATS there is . (Note, that I don't INTENTIONALLY build YATS, I always seem to find out after the fact that whatever overdrive I've built.....is...........a YATS....!!

 

[MichaelW]

What's your tone control setup?

I have the Bridge on a dedicated tone control.

Yah, that's what I use.....dedicated Tone control usually rolled off to about 5 or 6 with a slightly hotter bridge pickup.

After all the experimentation I've done, I've landed on this as my favorite Strat wiring, except I use a .015 tone cap.

 

[SillyOctpuss]

Ok, you guys are putting a gaping rabbit hole in front of me I'm about to step into with all this talk about baseplates and "thickening up" Strat bridge pickups........

I bought mine from here but I'm sure there's loads of places selling them in the states

Monty's Stratocaster Baseplate – Monty's Guitars

Monty’s Stratocaster baseplates are the perfect way to beef up a Stratocaster pickup, bringing out all those glorious low mid frequencies without rolling off any top end. These are particularly for a strat bridge pickup, which can get a bit thin at times. Believe it or not, these baseplates were...

www.montysguitars.com

It's held on with wax and your pickup mounting screws. It'll take hardly anytime to fit and see if you like it or not.

Tell you what I'll set an alarm for your baseplate fitting thread in say 7 days? Does that work for you?

 

[MichaelW]

I bought mine from here but I'm sure there's loads of places selling them in the states

Monty's Stratocaster Baseplate – Monty's Guitars

Monty’s Stratocaster baseplates are the perfect way to beef up a Stratocaster pickup, bringing out all those glorious low mid frequencies without rolling off any top end. These are particularly for a strat bridge pickup, which can get a bit thin at times. Believe it or not, these baseplates were...

www.montysguitars.com

It's held on with wax and your pickup mounting screws. It'll take hardly anytime to fit and see if you like it or not.

Tell you what I'll set an alarm for your baseplate fitting thread in say 7 days? Does that work for you?

Ok so it goes on the bottom of fiber plate? That's it?