LFOs - part I

LFO stands for Low Frequency Oscillator. We use LFOs in modulation and delay pedals to vary some parameter, such as phase, volume, delay time, etc., to create movement and give our guitar signal more life.

Oscillators are a really interesting subject and they're all around us. You're probably wearing one on your wrist. For this forum I'll focus on the two types of oscillators we use as LFOs in pedals:
Integrator-schmitt trigger oscillators make triangle waves and square waves.
Phase shift oscillators make sinewaves.

In this article I'll focus on the integrator-schmitt trigger oscillator and save the phase shift oscillator for part II.

The integrator-schmitt trigger oscillator primarily makes square waves and triangle waves. With a few extra parts, it can make psuedo-sinewaves, sawtooth and pulse waveforms.
Here is a great visualization of an integrator-schmitt trigger oscillator in action.
https://www.falstad.com/circuit/e-triangle.html

The advantages of this type of oscillator are:
1. It's guaranteed to start and run.
2. The frequency adjustment range can be huge and very low frequencies are possible.
3. The frequency and amplitude are very predictable & repeatable.
4. It doesn't take very many parts to implement.

There's really only one disadvantage:
1. It's prone to ticking.

The integrator-schmitt trigger oscillator shows up in pedals like the EQD Sea Machine, Chaos Machine, Keeley Magnetron, MXR Phase 90, MXR Electric Mistress, DOD FX75, Keeley Magnetic Echo, Boss CE-2, etc.

It's a good oscillator as long as we can mitigate the ticking. Guitar signals are small, on the order of a few hundred mV and the human ear is very sensitive. A disturbance as small as a few millivolts will be audible. It's important that things inside the pedal don't make any unwanted sounds.

Referring to the falstad webpage, the opamp on the right is an integrator and the opamp on the left is a schmitt trigger. The integrator ramps it's output voltage up or down at a rate determined by the upper 10K resistor and the capacitor. Replace the resistor with a pot and we have a Speed control. A schmitt trigger is a comparator with two thresholds: on for turning on and one for turning off. Whenever the triangle wave hits one of those thresholds, the schmitt trigger switches rapidly from on to off or off to on, which commands the integrator to ramp the triangle wave in the other direction. In this type of LFO, the voltage on the timing capacitor reverses every half cycle, so it's important that this capacitor is non-polar. If the LFO is intended to run very slowly, say longer that 10 seconds to go around once, then the capacitor needs to be low leakage because the charging and discharging currents are very small. A film cap is the best choice. Not all opamps are good for slow LFOs. The FET input opamps, like TL072, are good because their input bias current is small enough to not affect the operation. LM324 is another good choice for all except the slowest LFOs because the input currents are sufficiently low and the outputs swing close to the rails.

The Tick
Rapid switching in the schmitt trigger is the source of the tick. With opamp-based schmitt triggers, the output slews as fast as it can from one rail to the other. There is a spike in power supply current during the slew and that can spread all over the board thru the power and ground traces. Also, any signal traces or wires running near the schmitt trigger or Speed control can act as antennas and pick up the high frequency content present in the rapidly switching schmitt trigger output. The LFO may be switching at 1Hz or less, but the fast edges on the output of the schmitt trigger contain frequencies across the audio spectrum.
The solution is to slow down the schmitt trigger's switching speed so it doesn't draw large currents during switching or radiate high-freq noise. The "tick fix" I proposed several months ago does just that. The downside, if you want to call it that, is the peaks of the triangle wave get rounded off a little and the triangle amplitude changes a little bit when the frequency is changed.

There is another "tick fix" out there that is just plain dumb. It shows up in MidFi Pitch Pirate Deluxe. The output of the schmitt trigger is loaded with a large capacitor. That capacitor might slow down the schmitt trigger's output, but it causes large power supply current spikes. It's never a good idea to load the output of a conventional opamp with a capacitor because that capacitor could make the opamp oscillate, introducing more extraneous noise into the guitar signal.
 
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LFO stands for Low Frequency Oscillator. We use LFos in modulation and delay pedals to vary some parameter, such as phase, volume, delay time, etc., to create movement and give our guitar signal more life.

Oscillators are a really interesting subject and they're all around us. You're probably wearing one on your wrist. For this forum I'll focus on the two types of oscillators we use as LFOs in pedals:
Integrator-schmitt trigger oscillators make triangle waves and square waves.
Phase shift oscillators make sinewaves.

In this article I'll focus on the integrator-schmitt trigger oscillator and save the phase shift oscillator for part II.

The integrator-schmitt trigger oscillator primarily makes square waves and triangle waves. With a few extra parts, it can make psuedo-sinewaves, sawtooth and pulse waveforms.
Here is a great visualization of an integrator-schmitt trigger oscillator in action.
https://www.falstad.com/circuit/e-triangle.html

The advantages of this type of oscillator are:
1. It's guaranteed to start and run.
2. The frequency adjustment range can be huge and very low frequencies are possible.
3. The frequency and amplitude are very predictable & repeatable.
4. It doesn't take very many parts to implement.

There's really only one disadvantage:
1. It's prone to ticking.

The integrator-schmitt trigger oscillator shows up in pedals like the EQD Sea Machine, Chaos Machine, Keeley Magnetron, MXR Phase 90, MXR Electric Mistress, Catalinbread Pareidolia, DOD FX75, Keeley Magnetic Echo, Boss CE-2, etc.

It's a good oscillator as long as we can mitigate the ticking. Guitar signals are small, on the order of a few hundred mV and the human ear is very sensitive. A disturbance as small as a few millivolts will be audible. It's important that things inside the pedal don't make any unwanted sounds.

Referring to the falstad webpage, the opamp on the right is an integrator and the opamp on the left is a schmitt trigger. The integrator ramps it's output voltage up or down at a rate determined by the upper 10K resistor and the capacitor. Replace the resistor with a pot and we have a Speed control. A schmitt trigger is a comparator with two thresholds: on for turning on and one for turning off. Whenever the triangle wave hits one of those thresholds, the schmitt trigger switches rapidly from on to off or off to on, which commands the integrator to ramp the triangle wave in the other direction. In this type of LFO, the voltage on the timing capacitor reverses every half cycle, so it's important that this capacitor is non-polar. If the LFO is intended to run very slowly, say longer that 10 seconds to go around once, then the capacitor needs to be low leakage because the charging and discharging currents are very small. A film cap is the best choice. Not all opamps are good for slow LFOs. The FET input opamps, like TL072, are good because their input bias current is small enough to not affect the operation. LM324 is another good choice for all except the slowest LFOs because the input currents are sufficiently low and the outputs swing close to the rails.

The Tick
Rapid switching in the schmitt trigger is the source of the tick. With opamp-based schmitt triggers, the output slews as fast as it can from one rail to the other. There is a spike in power supply current during the slew and that can spread all over the board thru the power and ground traces. Also, any signal traces or wires running near the schmitt trigger or Speed control can act as antennas and pick up the high frequency content present in the rapidly switching schmitt trigger output. The LFO may be switching at 1Hz or less, but the fast edges on the output of the schmitt trigger contain frequencies across the audio spectrum.
The solution is to slow down the schmitt trigger's switching speed so it doesn't draw large currents during switching or radiate high-freq noise. The "tick fix" I proposed several months ago does just that. The downside, if you want to call it that, is the peaks of the triangle wave get rounded off a little and the triangle amplitude changes a little bit when the frequency is changed.

There is another "tick fix" out there that is just plain dumb. It shows up in MidFi Pitch Pirate Deluxe. The output of the schmitt trigger is loaded with a large capacitor. That capacitor might slow down the schmitt trigger's output, but it causes large power supply current spikes. It's never a good idea to load the output of a conventional opamp with a capacitor because that capacitor could make the opamp oscillate, introducing more extraneous noise into the guitar signal.
Awesome info!!!
 
Fabulous, Chuck! Just back from holidays without internetness I'm delighted to discover the boneyard....! What a source of head explosions and enlightenment. ;)
Could you refer to the tick fix or put a link up, I have missed that. Cheers!
 
Could you refer to the tick fix or put a link up, I have missed that. Cheers!

Hey Cooder, try here: https://forum.pedalpcb.com/threads/how-to-fix-the-lfo-tick-in-the-sea-horse-and-dark-rift.2360/

This fix works on all of the Schmitt-Integrator LFOs we've tried. The ones that already have a resistor in series with the schmitt's inverting (-) input pin are the easiest to do. If you have to add that resistor, then you'll need to cut or bend the IC pin and install the resistor between the IC pin & the pad.
 
Cheers Chuck! I actually saw that one earlier but wasn't sure if that's the one you were referring to, thanks for clarification.
Also: could you elaborate on what you would recommend as the best practise with ground and power planes on pcb designs? So far I have used a solid pour ground plane on bottom of pcb, no plane on upper side of pcb. Power connections just by traces. Do different pours have advantages in lower noise or less chance of inducing ticking? Just wondering because the newer pedal pcbs seem to have a pour on top layer, not solid but cross patterned or so. What's your take and does it depend on what circuit?
 
I look at it this way...
From an electrical perspective, more ground is better. It acts as a shield between traces and the more copper there is, the lower the resistance. From a thermal perspective, ground planes act like heatsinks and it makes soldering to the ground more difficult. That's why wagon-wheel pads were invented. We still have the ground plane, but the heat flowing out of the ground pads into the plane is reduced by the spokes. The cross-hatched ground plane is just an extension of the wagon-wheel concept. Still acts like a low-resistance ground path & shield, but there is less thermal conductivity, which facilitates soldering. And it looks pretty. My advice is pour as much ground as you can, but don't feel like you have to fill in every little nook & cranny. Definitely make sure there aren't any floating islands. If you can't easily tie a poured area to the overall ground, then either move something in your layout, add a via or just don't pour there.

As for ticking or any other kind of interference, you have three methods of dealing with the problem:
1. Reduce the noise at the source.
2. Reduce the coupling paths, including shielding.
3. Make the circuit less sensitive to noise.
Sometime you have to do all three. Always start with #1, because if the noise isn't there in the first place, you don't have to do #2 or #3. To minimize coupling, keep noisy traces away from sensitive traces. Same goes for off-board wiring. If there is anything you can do to make your circuit less sensitive to interference, do that too. Reducing impedances can help. High impedance circuits pick up noise more easily than low-impedance ones. I see pedal designs that mimic tube amps right down to the 1Meg pots. I think you know the ones I'm talking about. In many cases the impedances could be lowered 10x. Don't build in more gain than you need. Limit the high-freq gain, anything above 20KHz, because radio stations, computers and cell phones are radiating RF that will sneak into your pedals and cause havoc.
 
The integrator-schmitt trigger oscillator shows up in pedals like the EQD Sea Machine, Chaos Machine, Keeley Magnetron, MXR Phase 90, MXR Electric Mistress, Catalinbread Pareidolia, DOD FX75, Keeley Magnetic Echo, Boss CE-2, etc.
I know this is over pedantic but the Pareidolia uses a function generator for it's LFO
 
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You're right. Original post corrected. Thank you.

You realize that it is not necessary to quote an entire post. The non-relevant stuff can be edited out.
 
The Tick
Rapid switching in the schmitt trigger is the source of the tick. With opamp-based schmitt triggers, the output slews as fast as it can from one rail to the other. There is a spike in power supply current during the slew and that can spread all over the board thru the power and ground traces. Also, any signal traces or wires running near the schmitt trigger or Speed control can act as antennas and pick up the high frequency content present in the rapidly switching schmitt trigger output. The LFO may be switching at 1Hz or less, but the fast edges on the output of the schmitt trigger contain frequencies across the audio spectrum.
The solution is to slow down the schmitt trigger's switching speed so it doesn't draw large currents during switching or radiate high-freq noise. The "tick fix" I proposed several months ago does just that. The downside, if you want to call it that, is the peaks of the triangle wave get rounded off a little and the triangle amplitude changes a little bit when the frequency is changed.
I wish I had read this a few years ago, before I spent a whole week basically figuring this out for myself the hard way. Another thing that helped was to pick an op amp that was relatively slow and low-power. TL062 worked well for this.
 
First, thanks for replying!!

I have tried the Rockman circuit many times both with bi-polar and vref voltages and I cannot get it to work work properly, meaning flash rate of the LED (see below about flash time). I have no idea what I am doing wrong. I have made other LFO circuits and they work.

I am trying to learn as I go.

The Rockman chorus is a 20ms delay time on normal, and around 40ms on long chorus. I made a Boss CE-2 pedal for the input and outputs with a MN3007 BBD chip (AionFX Azure board), and added the delay control from the Boss DM-2 to change the delay time (see attachment). Off of the delay control I am inserting my LFO circuit input, pin 1 of the delay pot.

The slide switch for the sweep speed on the Rockman chorus adjusts oscillation between 1hz to 0.25hz. It says that the LED flashes at the sweep speed and watching a Leon Todd video (
) to me I count about 4 seconds between LED flashes at 1/4hz setting and around 2 seconds at 1hz speed, and 3 seconds at normal speed. Based on these delays between flashes I cannot get any of my LFO circuits to have that long of delay between flashes.

That is why I am trying to figure out how to design a LFO to give me that amount of time between flashes of the LED.

As far as waveform type and amplitude, I do not know. I was wondering how to determine these parameters. I have attached a schematic I received for the whole Rockman chorus/delay pedal, and the X100 pedal. The LFO I created was based off the X100 pedal, a lot easier to see the LFO schematic. The Chorus/delay I am still trying to figure out just the LFO portion. I created a rough schematic of what I think the LFO looks like.

Thanks
Rob
 

Attachments

After typing this post I got a determination to get this to work. I finally got one to work! I went over my Vero build found a 68K instead of a 6.8K resistor replaced and worked, this is for the X100 chorus LFO circuit, only difference is I used a 6.8K instead of 220 ohm for the LED. It now flashes around 3 seconds.

I made a breadboard of the circuit so I could experiment with the speed control. Based on the Chorus/delay schematic they used a 10KA pot (I uploaded the board schematic). The 10KA on its own seemed to work turned CW, but turning it CCW seemed like the time between the LED flash was way past four seconds. So I put a 2.7K (R211) shown on the Chorus/delay schematic, and now I get 4 seconds CCW, and 2 seconds turned CW.

I hooked it up to the Delay control I added on my CE2 build, but I got no modulation sound. I will need to look at this more.....

I also created a Mad Professor Deep Blue delay using AionFX board (Vector). From what I found on other posts, I removed the ground connection on the 47uf (C8) from PT2399 pin 2 and connected the LFO to the negative side of C8. This works, but the modulation is not too loud. I added the LFO to pin 6 on the PT2399 at the same connection as R10, and this seems to work. It is hard to hear what the modulation is doing, but if you increase the delay time, then you really can hear the modulation, and it is weird sounding, but at the right delay speed it blends in nice.

Back to the CE2 build.........

Thanks
Rob
 

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