1kHz noise with Terrarium board

[sonic_explorer]

Through implementing a few of the tricks people have mentioned here and on the Electro-Smith forum (small blocksize, distributed ProcessControls) I think I finally have a new version of the Rhythmic Delay without any 1kHz whine (at least with my Terrarium builds). The same tricks also seem to work with a harmonic tremolo I am almost finished with. There is a bit of finesse to keep things working when using these tricks, but so far it has not really held back my programs.

I am still tweaking some of the features, but I hope to post the new whine-free version of the Rhythmic Delay soon. I have had one other person test the program and they did not hear any whine, but if someone else is interested in testing it to confirm the lack of whine send me a message and I can pass the current version of the .bin along.

 

[bretvh]

Through implementing a few of the tricks people have mentioned here and on the Electro-Smith forum (small blocksize, distributed ProcessControls) I think I finally have a new version of the Rhythmic Delay without any 1kHz whine (at least with my Terrarium builds). The same tricks also seem to work with a harmonic tremolo I am almost finished with. There is a bit of finesse to keep things working when using these tricks, but so far it has not really held back my programs.

I am still tweaking some of the features, but I hope to post the new whine-free version of the Rhythmic Delay soon. I have had one other person test the program and they did not hear any whine, but if someone else is interested in testing it to confirm the lack of whine send me a message and I can pass the current version of the .bin along.

I'm happy to give it a go if you need another tester.

 

[Gordo]

Put me down for that as well. The sound quality was outstanding.

 

[Gordo]

*.bin if possible for us lazy people...

 

[ryanpwm]

I won't get into a big discussion about the "quality" of the PCB design but it's at least worth mentioning that the noise issue is just as bad with the official Petal. This is not a problem exclusive to the Terrarium and was reported on the Electro-Smith forums before the Terrarium PCB was created.

Your point about the separation of analog / digital grounds is certainly valid, but I don't believe that alone is going to be the root of the problem.

You can hear the noise in this clip, which is an algorithm running on the official Petal before the Terrarium PCB existed.

https://soundcloud.com/pedalpcb%2Fdaydream-cascades

It's like yeah, but I have the Daisy Patch with no such noise. It's possible to design it to work. And it's possible for that design to completely eliminate any noise from the signal.

 

[ryanpwm]

If he could read too.

The title is 1khz noise WITH Terrarium board, which is a Pedalpcb board, sold by Pedalpcb.

And the post is asking in the terrarium board specificaly.

I'm confused by this comment. I gave a picture of the issues with the terrarium board and only talked about the PedalPCB terrarium board in my comment.

 

[Robert]

It's like yeah, but I have the Daisy Patch with no such noise. It's possible to design it to work. And it's possible for that design to completely eliminate any noise from the signal.

I've had the Petal since the first wave of shipments from the Kickstarter.

The fact that the noise occurs with the official Petal hardware, other PCBs, vero layouts, and breadboards somewhat disqualifies the implication that the Terrarium is the cause of the problem.

Like I said, your points are valid, no one is arguing with that, but unfortunately they aren't the cause of the noise. I wish improved trace routing and decoupling would clear everything up and give us a nice clean noise floor, unfortunately I don't believe that is going to be the case.

If I thought the Terrarium PCB was the cause of the problems discussed here I would remove the project until the necessary fixes were made.... but I can say first hand that it is not the source of the noise.


I'd also like to add that I don't think Electro-Smith nor the Daisy is getting a "bad name"... It's an excellent piece of hardware and everyone here is working to get the most out of it.... but it is relatively new, and there are quirks that need improvements / workarounds. Electro-Smith (and the community) is constantly fixing bugs and improving the platform.

Likewise, the Terrarium is a prototyping board, and a first revision at that. No one here is expecting to drop it into a mass-produced production device. There are plenty of people here making contributions who otherwise wouldn't be onboard at the entry price of $319 with no prior experience with the hardware.

 

[fxwiegand]

Through implementing a few of the tricks people have mentioned here and on the Electro-Smith forum (small blocksize, distributed ProcessControls) I think I finally have a new version of the Rhythmic Delay without any 1kHz whine (at least with my Terrarium builds). The same tricks also seem to work with a harmonic tremolo I am almost finished with. There is a bit of finesse to keep things working when using these tricks, but so far it has not really held back my programs.

I am still tweaking some of the features, but I hope to post the new whine-free version of the Rhythmic Delay soon. I have had one other person test the program and they did not hear any whine, but if someone else is interested in testing it to confirm the lack of whine send me a message and I can pass the current version of the .bin along.

I'd also be interested in testing the improved delay. Also really excited to take a look into your code and what exactly you did to minimize the noise since I am getting quite a bit with my reverb and also the ladder filter.

 

[MojoTrwall]

I'm confused by this comment. I gave a picture of the issues with the terrarium board and only talked about the PedalPCB terrarium board in my comment.

Then that's even worse than your initial tone. You simply don't understand what you wrote.

Pedalpcb f'd up and it's giving daisy a bad name. By the real shit from Electrosmith.

Still confused or need more in depth explanation ?

How the hell, a thread named NOISE ON THE TERRARIUM PCB BOARD (Sold by Pedalpcb has you mentionned) is giving daisy a bad name ?

Because there's indeed a cause effect in your sentences regarding Pedalpcb missing ground point, and Daisy getting a Bad name.

Which is untrue by the way, since the noise problems has been discuted on other forum with other system, and some official Daisy stuff itself ?

You see, some miss ground point, some miss point when they wan't to take a rant, we all got to be f'ing somewhere

 

[Dreamlands]

I'd also like to add that I don't think Electro-Smith nor the Daisy is getting a "bad name"...

Every participant I've encountered on this board and the Daisy Slack has realistic expectations with regard to first steps. We've all got to learn to walk before we can run.

This is a very collaborative, supportive community and there are only solutions and good times ahead, as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Gordo]

Honestly, I'm comfortable with the comments across the board. This thing is a proto board and the results and input I'm seeing from several users seem to address the issues and push this thing into really cool territory. Folks like sonic_explorer are doing really amazing things with this and with respect to him I won't comment on his latest dev that he's let me work with unless he asks me to.

<soapbox>
Speaking totally from my perspective...I appreciate the fact that everyone has been pretty civil about an invasion by the typical "ass-hat" assault that seems to be the norm on the web these days and I also understand the misunderstanding that this place might be part of that mentality. It isn't, we're a respectful community here and all we ask is that you respect that. If that doesn't sit well, then please feel free to not be a part of it. We will always welcome input by knowledgeable peeps and are grateful for it.
</soapbox>

Carry on.

 

[donstavely]

I am following this with interest (but no judgement) as an FV-1 veteran but Daisy newcomer. As a retired analog and digital EE, now music effects hobbyist, I offer this perspective: The FV-1 was very smartly conceived and carefully designed such that it could be treated as and analog part, with internal codec, low frequency crystal, and well-behaved power characteristics. I think that E-S, and all of us potential Daisy users, want to treat the Seed module in the same way, trusting it to encapsulate all of the scary complexity of high-speed mixed-signal circuit design. I know I do.

OK, maybe this amounts to a judgement after all. To realize this "virtual analog" model, the burden needs to fall back on E-S to deal with processor noise leaking into the audio, through better grounding, bypassing, or whatever within the Seed module itself. At the very least, there should be clear guidelines for how to ground, bypass, or otherwise treat the module externally to avoid any noise issues.

 

[Aentons]

It's been a while. Was the issue with the 1k noise ever addressed other than tweaking the sampling in code?

 

[Aentons]

It's been a while. Was the issue with the 1k noise ever addressed other than tweaking the sampling in code?

I got my first brand new Seed in and wired up to Terrarium specs on the Madbean ProtoRig breadboard and powered with a Onespot. I put the lastest Rhythmic delay on it and it is hella noisey including the very distinct 1k noise.

I've tried a couple of different placements and values/types of bypass/decoupling caps and it is likely not optimal. Are there any known, optimal values/types?

It seems like low esr/esl electro caps are needed but what about mlcc types? I mostly have X7R types from tayda. Would others perform better?

I've had a look at the Petal to see if I could glean any values or power related suggestions from it and they seem to be doing some extreme isolation with the 5v-5v dc converter and some kind of audio bias buffering with the MCP6004 that I don't really understand.

Any insights are appreciated.