Adding a B Breaker additional gain toggle

[ChrsGuit]

Hey folks. Back before I discovered PedalPCB I built my first pedal, a "Der Breaker" from Musikding... I liked it so much I built one for a friend of mine.
This friend keeps up with all my builds and recently asked me to modify the "Der Breaker" I built him to add a bit more gain via toggle. I'm still a novice when it comes to understanding the principles of circuitry and how to make what do what.
Just curious if there was a simple way to add more gain without drastically changing anything... ex, jumper wire to a toggle to cancel out a component, or to swap a value.
Below is the exact circuit in question... which should be a regular run-of-the-mill B.B clone

 

[ThePanda]

You could possibly toggle a simple jfet boost to add more gain.
I dunno how this would change the pot value though.

 

[ChrsGuit]

You could possibly toggle a simple jfet boost to add more gain.
I dunno how this would change the pot value though.

I've seen that suggested, but that's about it. One suggestion I saw on another forum was to cancel out two of the four diodes to turn it from soft to hard clipping, but there was no further explanation given.

 

[ThePanda]

I've seen that suggested, but that's about it. One suggestion I saw on another forum was to cancel out two of the four diodes to turn it from soft to hard clipping, but there was no further explanation given.

Frogpedals bluesbreaker adds a jfet boost at the end. https://frogpedals.com/index.php/product/frog-bluesmaster-overdrive-pcb-bluesbreaker-inspired/

I have seen others remove the diodes and just have the opamp overdrive. They say the diodes are responsible for the volume drop.

Hard clipping would put diodes after the 2nd opamp gain stage.

 

[ChrsGuit]

Frogpedals bluesbreaker adds a jfet boost at the end. https://frogpedals.com/index.php/product/frog-bluesmaster-overdrive-pcb-bluesbreaker-inspired/

I have seen others remove the diodes and just have the opamp overdrive. They say the diodes are responsible for the volume drop.

Hard clipping would put diodes after the 2nd opamp gain stage.

I have a Blammo! Bluesblaster that has an additional gain boost. It has a second opamp inside and some extra diodes... might be a similar thing.

 

[Fama]

I've seen that suggested, but that's about it. One suggestion I saw on another forum was to cancel out two of the four diodes to turn it from soft to hard clipping, but there was no further explanation given.

FWIW I copied the Coda Black Hole (since it's not available anymore) and put another circuit and a simple LPB-1 (behind it's own footswitch) in the same enclosure. You could easily add a similar one before the blues breaker, so it just boosts the incoming signal. It's a very small PCB, one transistor, couple of resistors and capcitors. I think you could just wire it with a SPDT switch, use a trimmer for the pot like I did. This is the one I used, you can see how tiny it is https://shop.pedalparts.co.uk/product/lpb

 

[BuddytheReow]

In your schematic, the gain structure is calculated as the relationship between the gain pot and R3/R4 combo. The best way to increase the gain would be to increase the pot value to 250k. To keep the same EQ response, you'll need to also double the value of C4 to 100p.

 

[Synchrony Pedalworks]

Here are two other options-
Add an extra gain stage

Afterblaster v2 Add an extra gain stage to any circuit. - GuitarPCB

Add a Gain Stage to any circuit using the Afterblaster for more available tone. Build like a pro.

guitarpcb.com

Use the 2 knob job to dial in two different settings of the gain knob

2 Knob Job - Turn 1 Knob into 2 (foot switchable control) - GuitarPCB

Instantly create two unique foot switchable potentiometer settings whether it be Volume, Gain, Delay, Tone, Ramp Modulation Speed or anything you can imagine.

guitarpcb.com

 

[Locrian99]

If it were me I would probably just grab a glory hole board. Possibly do as buddy said as well but the glory hole to me is what the blues breaker should be.

The board linked above from a quick look basically is adding the output buffer circuit thag the glory hole is. The bright switch is also a nice addition.

I guess I think of gain probably incorrectly as more dirt, is that what he’s after or more volume.

 

[ChrsGuit]

If it were me I would probably just grab a glory hole board. Possibly do as buddy said as well but the glory hole to me is what the blues breaker should be.

The board linked above from a quick look basically is adding the output buffer circuit thag the glory hole is. The bright switch is also a nice addition.

I guess I think of gain probably incorrectly as more dirt, is that what he’s after or more volume.

I built one of those as well... doesn't sound as good yo me... Has this annoying high-end treble to it and the "low" switch has too much bass. I did a "more gain" option on it and it sounds much better...

I still like the pedal I mentioned much better... and I don't want to build my buddy a new pedal. I already built him the B.B in question as a gift... he just wanted a toggle to add a bit more saturation. Blammo! Electronics did a similar thing with their Bluesblaster but I'm nor sure how.

 

[ChrsGuit]

In your schematic, the gain structure is calculated as the relationship between the gain pot and R3/R4 combo. The best way to increase the gain would be to increase the pot value to 250k. To keep the same EQ response, you'll need to also double the value of C4 to 100p.

Thanks Buddy... that's kinda what I was aiming for... and we're not talking ultra gain or anything... just a nice "slightly pushed" drive sound...
I never liked "distortion" pedals but many overdrive pedals are lacking... They should at least be able to achieve something like an AC/DC drive/crunch, since it's not really "distortion"... just a fat drive sound that's tight and has attitude.

 

[Locrian99]

I built one of those as well... doesn't sound as good yo me... Has this annoying high-end treble to it and the "low" switch has too much bass. I did a "more gain" option on it and it sounds much better...

I still like the pedal I mentioned much better... and I don't want to build my buddy a new pedal. I already built him the B.B in question as a gift... he just wanted a toggle to add a bit more saturation. Blammo! Electronics did a similar thing with their Bluesblaster but I'm nor sure how.

Well we all are chasing our own tone. In my opinion the blues breakers where they are going for more saturation, dirt or whatever I always feel like I have something else that does what im
Looking for better. But that’s also probably part of being a guy who builds pedals and has way too many of them.

I will say I feel like the the glory hole is 100x better with a LP than a strat, if I’m going for the low gain overdrive thing with my strat I’m far more likely to go with the chop shop.

 

[ChrsGuit]

In your schematic, the gain structure is calculated as the relationship between the gain pot and R3/R4 combo. The best way to increase the gain would be to increase the pot value to 250k. To keep the same EQ response, you'll need to also double the value of C4 to 100p.

And if I did as you suggested, in theory I could swap the pot and add the different value of capacitor on a toggle as a tone-shaping option?

 

[ChrsGuit]

Well we all are chasing our own tone. In my opinion the blues breakers where they are going for more saturation, dirt or whatever I always feel like I have something else that does what im
Looking for better. But that’s also probably part of being a guy who builds pedals and has way too many of them.

I will say I feel like the the glory hole is 100x better with a LP than a strat, if I’m going for the low gain overdrive thing with my strat I’m far more likely to go with the chop shop.

I'm kinda stuck right now, because I have built several overdrives now, and none of them seem to REALLY impress me... It seems strange that the video demos, etc seem to sound SO GOOD, and then you get the genuine thing or build it and it seems nothing like the demo... I guess they process, compress, edit, etc so much it's night and day... And I understand it if you're a crappy player or have bad gear, but I've found myself more dissapointed with expensive gear and more impressed with cheap gear. Like the Kliche Klon Clone... I don't see the hype with it. It doesn't sound good to my ears. It's either got this bright treble thing with the tone above noon or this weird nasally midrange dip if the tone goes below noon

 

[BuddytheReow]

And if I did as you suggested, in theory I could swap the pot and add the different value of capacitor on a toggle as a tone-shaping option?

In theory yes. The capacitor just tames the highs as the gain is cranked up. Keeping that value too low may cause unwanted hiss/oscillation, but considering this is a low gain circuit I wouldn’t worry too much about that.

 

[Fama]

I guess they process, compress, edit, etc so much it's night and day...

I don't think they necessarily process things that much - but most people who make pedal demos are really good at dialing in tones. And they are also good at figuring out what sounds good when played with that pedal. Or at least that's what I've seen with most demos, there could be some that do heavy processing.

 

[ChrsGuit]

I don't think they necessarily process things that much - but most people who make pedal demos are really good at dialing in tones. And they are also good at figuring out what sounds good when played with that pedal. Or at least that's what I've seen with most demos, there could be some that do heavy processing.

Oh, I should probably clarify what I meant. I don't think these guys are necessarily doing a bunch of that... my point was that things sound MUCH different when you just plug in and play in a room vs when you record with a high quality camera and mic setup, or mic up an amp/cab or run throughan audio interface, record it onto pro audio software and do a quick mix/master on it...

Not that the sound is heavily tampered with or anything, but it's going to be a bit different than just plugging in and playing

 

[Fama]

Oh, I should probably clarify what I meant. I don't think these guys are necessarily doing a bunch of that... my point was that things sound MUCH different when you just plug in and play in a room vs when you record with a high quality camera and mic setup, or mic up an amp/cab or run throughan audio interface, record it onto pro audio software and do a quick mix/master on it...

Not that the sound is heavily tampered with or anything, but it's going to be a bit different than just plugging in and playing

That's a fair point, and I think the biggest issue indeed is that you're comparing the highlights of an experienced professional who is probably known on Youtube exactly because they can make any pedal sound good, due to good choices in what to play, great playing, and great dialing in tones (plus usually running the pedal into a high end tube amp or similar), and then comparing it to what it sounds when you try to dial it in while noodling something at the same time.

I don't mean to talk you or anyone else down, it's just that one is sort of a finished product after probably hours of work and lots of experience using similar pedals and learning their own (expensive tube) amp, and the other is the first steps in learning a new pedal, so there's bound to be a big disconnect there.

 

[ChrsGuit]

That's a fair point, and I think the biggest issue indeed is that you're comparing the highlights of an experienced professional who is probably known on Youtube exactly because they can make any pedal sound good, due to good choices in what to play, great playing, and great dialing in tones (plus usually running the pedal into a high end tube amp or similar), and then comparing it to what it sounds when you try to dial it in while noodling something at the same time.

I don't mean to talk you or anyone else down, it's just that one is sort of a finished product after probably hours of work and lots of experience using similar pedals and learning their own (expensive tube) amp, and the other is the first steps in learning a new pedal, so there's bound to be a big disconnect there.

I'd agree with all that... And I know that curve as well. I'm still learning the secrets of my vintage Fender amps (1966 Super Reverb and 1969 Bandmaster Reverb and various silverface Twins, Bandmasters, Supers, etc)...
I played my Marshall JCM2000 TSL for almost 20 years gigging and recording, so it was definitely a different animal when I started focusing more on a variety of gear and not the same old Amp and handful of pedals I used all the time.
I had a that I could use to sit in, record with, or play a live show and not have to worry about anything because I had it all down...
My board was the Line 6 DL4, MM4, and DM4 with presets and a Tube screamer to boost my crunch tone into a lead... that was it...
I got into amp collecting and pedal building after I hung up the band/recording thing and just started building everything I'd always wanted to try out... mostly overdrives...

 

[ChrsGuit]

Well we all are chasing our own tone. In my opinion the blues breakers where they are going for more saturation, dirt or whatever I always feel like I have something else that does what im
Looking for better. But that’s also probably part of being a guy who builds pedals and has way too many of them.

I will say I feel like the the glory hole is 100x better with a LP than a strat, if I’m going for the low gain overdrive thing with my strat I’m far more likely to go with the chop shop.

BTW, I dunno if I said it, but I was really impressed with the "Super Stevie" pedal. I did the high gain version but added a toggle to incorporate the low gain resistor or bypass (high gain) with one you get a cleaner, louder, high headroom sound, and the other a nice compression with more drive.
I was also very impressed with the OctaMayer octave-fuzz. Sounds way better than the limited "Cheese Wedge" Hendrix Octavio I bought back in 2008. My next build is trying to modify the "little green scream machine to TS 10 specs... I've got half a dozen T.S variants, and the ones I like most are the JHS 3 series Screamer and a 2000's TS-7 Tone Lok. Surprisingly, my least favorite is the TS-808 reissue