Big Muff Pi on a breadboard - passes signal until power is applied.

I

ibanez flanger

New member
Hiyas,

Total noob looking for some help. Not sure if I deserve any....

With no power connected, I get a clean signal passing through.

When I plug the 9v (wall wart PSU) in, I get 1-2 seconds of total silence then a constant tick-tick-tick sound, maybe 10-12 ticks per second.

Same results with a 9v battery.

With no power connected, I went through and tested each component and although some had some variations, I thought they were possibly close enough to suffice?

But I don't really know how to test them with power connected, or really where to start troubleshooting.

Apologies if my photos are not adequate. Happy to take some more if requested.

If I ever get to another pcb, I will replace the resistors with the blue ones people say are better.

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neiltheseal said:
When you breadboard it, you should build it in stages. Build the input booster stage, then check it works. Then move onto half of the clipping amplifier, check it works, then move to the next.
Click to expand...
Hi neiltheseal. Thanks for the reply.

Probably an obvious question but what sounds should I hear after each stage? I did that after the input booster. Just got the same low volume clean tone, and the pot didn't seem to behave like I thought it would increasing volume when turning clockwise. I fact it seemed reverse if anything, but swapping pins did not fix it.

I got some kind of distortion after the clipping stages too, bt I had to strum quite hard to get it.

Also, very annoyingly, but intermittently, I get zero signal. I'm just not trusting the pins in the breadboard sockets are a reliably transporting current.
 
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Well, for one, your clipping diodes are parallel, they need to be anti-parallel.

Parallel:

⇥​
⇥​


Anti-parallel:

⇥​
⇤​


Just turn one of each set around, doesn't matter which one of each pair:

⇥​
⇤​
​
⇤​
⇥​

However, I don't think the diodes alone are responsible for the ticking and lack of desired Muffy Fuzz.




Suggestion:
In addition to Neil's suggestion to build one section of the circuit at a time, I'll also suggest simplifying the build as much as possible; You've got a lot of jumpers, such as components stretched on one axis with jumpers when you could rearrange the layout to get rid of a jumper and just have the component connect directly to the row/column of the next component to be connected.

The most important thing is whether it makes sense to you, and if it does stick with that — but I still encourage to experiment with streamlining your layouts in future. For example, I find this way of breadboarding defeats several principle-reasons for breadboarding — simplicity being key and breadboards' built-in links/jumpers — why so many jumpers and spreading it across THREE breadboards? C'EST BIZARRE! :

BREADBOARD%2BDeadastronaut%2BSpace%2BPatrol.png

I will say it's easy to follow the signal path on the above layout.





I would split your circuit as per the schematic you posted, save I would split the two clipping sections as well, a total of 5 distinct sections with plenty of space between them and a jumper to connect each section — I'd even go so far as to use a specific colour of jumper for the splits and use only that one colour for splits (4 jumpers total), if there's enough jumpers for building it that way.



In the first link below, you'll find a Quarantine Fuzz I breadboarded. I'm not the greatest breadboarder out there, but in the space of half a breadboard (no clipping diodes nor clipping caps in the Quarantine), I've got what I think is a reasonably efficient layout.
I could easily add those aforementioned omitted components to make it a full on Muff without cluttering it up, too.

N

Thread 'Trying to layout a muff on the breadboard'

It's a little abstract for me to understand, but am I doing this right? I'm following this schematic, http://www.bigmuffpage.com/images/KR_1973_V2_No 3 Schematic.jpg MUFFER.png
BuddytheReow

TUTORIAL Thread 'Breadboarding Tips and Tricks'

@Harry Klippton this one’s for you!

Not really a tutorial, but I wanted to share a few tips and tricks I've learned in my breadboarding journey.

First things first. Light up a diode!

One of the very first things you should do is light up a LED. It accomplished 2 things: you've verified that your breadboard works as it should and you can translate a simple schematic to a breadboard. Take this one for example:
resistors-in-LED-circuits.png

Power to a current limiting resistor to a diode to ground. A schematic reads one way, but a...
  • Like
  • Love
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Feral Feline said:
Well, for one, your clipping diodes are parallel, they need to be anti-parallel.

Parallel:

⇥​
⇥​


Anti-parallel:

⇥​
⇤​


Just turn one of each set around, doesn't matter which one of each pair:

⇥​
⇤​
​
⇤​
⇥​

However, I don't think the diodes alone are responsible for the ticking and lack of desired Muffy Fuzz.




Suggestion:
In addition to Neil's suggestion to do build one section of the circuit at a time, I'll also suggest simplifying the build as much as possible; You've got a lot of jumpers, such as components stretched on one axis with jumpers when you could rearrange the layout to get rid of a jumper and just have the component connect directly to the row/column of the next component to be connected.

The most important thing is whether it makes sense to you, and if it does stick with that — but I still encourage to experiment with streamlining your layouts in future. For example, I find this way of breadboarding defeats several principle-reasons for breadboarding — simplicity being key and breadboards' built-in links/jumpers — why so many jumpers and spreading it across THREE breadboards? C'EST BIZARRE! :

BREADBOARD%2BDeadastronaut%2BSpace%2BPatrol.png

I will say it's easy to follow the signal path on the above layout.





I would split your circuit as per the schematic you posted, save I would split the two clipping sections as well, a total of 5 distinct sections with plenty of space between them and a jumper to connect each section — I'd even go so far as to use a specific colour of jumper for the splits and use only that one colour for splits (4 jumpers total), if there's enough jumpers for building it that way.



In the first link below, you'll find a Quarantine Fuzz I breadboarded. I'm not the greatest breadboarder out there, but in the space of half a breadboard (no clipping diodes nor clipping caps in the Quarantine), I've got what I think is a reasonably efficient layout.
I could easily add those aforementioned omitted components to make it a full on Muff without cluttering it up, too.

N

Thread 'Trying to layout a muff on the breadboard'

It's a little abstract for me to understand, but am I doing this right? I'm following this schematic, http://www.bigmuffpage.com/images/KR_1973_V2_No 3 Schematic.jpg MUFFER.png
BuddytheReow

TUTORIAL Thread 'Breadboarding Tips and Tricks'

@Harry Klippton this one’s for you!

Not really a tutorial, but I wanted to share a few tips and tricks I've learned in my breadboarding journey.

First things first. Light up a diode!

One of the very first things you should do is light up a LED. It accomplished 2 things: you've verified that your breadboard works as it should and you can translate a simple schematic to a breadboard. Take this one for example:
resistors-in-LED-circuits.png

Power to a current limiting resistor to a diode to ground. A schematic reads one way, but a...
  • Like
  • Love
Click to expand...
Thanks Feral Feline. More great advice and tips.

I've built and rebuilt probably 20 times trying to simplify it. Good to know I need to do it again.

One reason for the jumpers was to try to physically distance components which helps me trace it. But yeah I probably have too many.

Love your suggestions to split it further and colour code. Simple but very logical.

The diodes...I will do as you suggest but aren't they both depicted facing the same way on the circuit diagram?
 
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Feral Feline said:
Well, for one, your clipping diodes are parallel, they need to be anti-parallel.

Parallel:

⇥​
⇥​


Anti-parallel:

⇥​
⇤​


Just turn one of each set around, doesn't matter which one of each pair:

⇥​
⇤​
​
⇤​
⇥​

However, I don't think the diodes alone are responsible for the ticking and lack of desired Muffy Fuzz.




Suggestion:
In addition to Neil's suggestion to build one section of the circuit at a time, I'll also suggest simplifying the build as much as possible; You've got a lot of jumpers, such as components stretched on one axis with jumpers when you could rearrange the layout to get rid of a jumper and just have the component connect directly to the row/column of the next component to be connected.

The most important thing is whether it makes sense to you, and if it does stick with that — but I still encourage to experiment with streamlining your layouts in future. For example, I find this way of breadboarding defeats several principle-reasons for breadboarding — simplicity being key and breadboards' built-in links/jumpers — why so many jumpers and spreading it across THREE breadboards? C'EST BIZARRE! :

BREADBOARD%2BDeadastronaut%2BSpace%2BPatrol.png

I will say it's easy to follow the signal path on the above layout.





I would split your circuit as per the schematic you posted, save I would split the two clipping sections as well, a total of 5 distinct sections with plenty of space between them and a jumper to connect each section — I'd even go so far as to use a specific colour of jumper for the splits and use only that one colour for splits (4 jumpers total), if there's enough jumpers for building it that way.



In the first link below, you'll find a Quarantine Fuzz I breadboarded. I'm not the greatest breadboarder out there, but in the space of half a breadboard (no clipping diodes nor clipping caps in the Quarantine), I've got what I think is a reasonably efficient layout.
I could easily add those aforementioned omitted components to make it a full on Muff without cluttering it up, too.

N

Thread 'Trying to layout a muff on the breadboard'

It's a little abstract for me to understand, but am I doing this right? I'm following this schematic, http://www.bigmuffpage.com/images/KR_1973_V2_No 3 Schematic.jpg MUFFER.png
BuddytheReow

TUTORIAL Thread 'Breadboarding Tips and Tricks'

@Harry Klippton this one’s for you!

Not really a tutorial, but I wanted to share a few tips and tricks I've learned in my breadboarding journey.

First things first. Light up a diode!

One of the very first things you should do is light up a LED. It accomplished 2 things: you've verified that your breadboard works as it should and you can translate a simple schematic to a breadboard. Take this one for example:
resistors-in-LED-circuits.png

Power to a current limiting resistor to a diode to ground. A schematic reads one way, but a...
  • Like
  • Love
Click to expand...
Oh ignore my diode question. Just rechecked the circuit....
 
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If it's any comfort, I'm getting NOTHING with a Bosstone variant I recently breadboarded. Okay, not nothing, but just static-y-crackley-crapola.
Probably/Arguably an even simpler circuit than the Muff. I hate troubleshooting, 'cause I need to do too much of it — so you'd think I'd be good at it by now. 😼 I'll have to look at that tonight, I'm running out of time, it's a build for a friend of a friend — Gristmas looms nigh.

Best of luck getting your board sorted.
 
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ibanez flanger said:
Hi neiltheseal. Thanks for the reply.

Probably an obvious question but what sounds should I hear after each stage? I did that after the input booster. Just got the same low volume clean tone, and the pot didn't seem to behave like I thought it would increasing volume when turning clockwise. I fact it seemed reverse if anything, but swapping pins did not fix it.

I got some kind of distortion after the clipping stages too, bt I had to strum quite hard to get it.

Also, very annoyingly, but intermittently, I get zero signal. I'm just not trusting the pins in the breadboard sockets are a reliably transporting current.
Click to expand...
Each stage is different. The input booster stage just makes the signal really loud. If yours is quiet then your problem is here.

Clipping stages will distort.

It sounds like your pot is wired backwards, that's not really a problem.

Sounds like you have a cheap breadboward if the sound cuts out intermittently. You are better off buying a decent one for this reason. Bus Board is a good one I use. I did the same thing that you did when I started. So glad I threw out the cheap breadboards and bought better ones.
 
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neiltheseal said:
What transistors are you using by the way? They might have the wrong pinout which could be your problem
Click to expand...
2n5088's from Mouser. I checked the datasheet for the pinouts. Wasn't completely clear to me which was which...they listed emitter as 1, base 2 and collector 3 followed but there's no image with the numbers pointing to the pins. The main image had it oriented flat side ot so I just assumed it was numbered 1, 2, 3 left to right.
 
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Good that you're checking datasheets, always a must. Different manufacturers sometimes mix things up for us DIYers;

so take the following with a grain of Germanium, or Silicon, or whatever...


transistor pinout types.gif
TRANSISTORS PINOUTS & HFE [VIEW FROM TOP].png
 
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