BuddytheReow
Moderator
eh...there was a pile of 10uf sitting next to me, so I used them. I could just use a bunch of 1uf, but where's the fun in that
CONTEST Happy New Years Limited Parts Contest
- Thread starter steviejr92
- Start date
CONTEST
t1redhands
Active member
Here's another fuzz that comes in at 29 pieces including all the stuff for regulated voltage.
There's not a whole lot of documentation on the internet about the internal fuzz circuit from old Messenger guitars. A friend of mine mentioned Grand Funk Railroad's Mark Farner's guitar tone was his favorite, so I've attempted to recreate it. Based on demos of the Basic Audio Messenger Fuzz my attempt gets fairly close. I've added a control for "gate" and one for "depth." Lots of sustain with this guy and some hints of octave. I've also added the 47pf cap at Q2 and increased the output capacitor, otherwise it's stock (as far as I can tell - this is the only resource I was able to find about it: https://www.freestompboxes.org/viewtopic.php?t=6688 )
The voltage regulator might not be necessary, but I was getting a low frequency oscillation in the overall voltage (from the inductor? I'm not sure how this circuit works, to be honest). Adding a diode to ground in series with the inductor and extra voltage supply filtering caps smoothed it out. It's still possible to dial in the LFO with the depth knob all the way "thin" and the gating pegged at "minimum gate." It's a weird one.
Apologies again for cellphone audio and terrible playing.
There's not a whole lot of documentation on the internet about the internal fuzz circuit from old Messenger guitars. A friend of mine mentioned Grand Funk Railroad's Mark Farner's guitar tone was his favorite, so I've attempted to recreate it. Based on demos of the Basic Audio Messenger Fuzz my attempt gets fairly close. I've added a control for "gate" and one for "depth." Lots of sustain with this guy and some hints of octave. I've also added the 47pf cap at Q2 and increased the output capacitor, otherwise it's stock (as far as I can tell - this is the only resource I was able to find about it: https://www.freestompboxes.org/viewtopic.php?t=6688 )
The voltage regulator might not be necessary, but I was getting a low frequency oscillation in the overall voltage (from the inductor? I'm not sure how this circuit works, to be honest). Adding a diode to ground in series with the inductor and extra voltage supply filtering caps smoothed it out. It's still possible to dial in the LFO with the depth knob all the way "thin" and the gating pegged at "minimum gate." It's a weird one.
Apologies again for cellphone audio and terrible playing.
steviejr92
Authorized Vendor
@t1redhands Im loving the harmonics you're getting out of this!
Last edited:
steviejr92
Authorized Vendor
@The Gator Yes you may do so, keep in mind that might not win over the judges....
The Gator
Well-known member
So, what constitutes your own circuit?
seems like perhaps unique circuit is more like it.T1redhands circuit is really cool. I would vote for that over my idea actually! But it's not his circuit in reality. I make my own opamp overdrive I doubt anyone would be intetested.
I want to join the competition mainly to compete but yeah sounds like I need to come up with something else.
Im just trying to define the contest a little better for myself.
seems like perhaps unique circuit is more like it.T1redhands circuit is really cool. I would vote for that over my idea actually! But it's not his circuit in reality. I make my own opamp overdrive I doubt anyone would be intetested.
I want to join the competition mainly to compete but yeah sounds like I need to come up with something else.
Im just trying to define the contest a little better for myself.
KR Sound
Well-known member
Just make whatever happen, Cap’n and have some fun
steviejr92
Authorized Vendor
@The Gator The judges are going to judge based on tone, cleverness, and originality! I was just trying to answer your question of just removing parts as i dont think that alone will win over the judges!
I like @KR Sound attitude! Just have some fun and send in your entry!
I like @KR Sound attitude! Just have some fun and send in your entry!
Chuck D. Bones
Circuit Wizard
These are all competitive entries so far...
Chuck D. Bones
Circuit Wizard
I'm not finding any schematics there. All of the images are gone.
Did the original circuit have Ge or Si transistors?
Last edited:
As expected, the buffer was not necessary, so now I can have a gainier version with the bypass cap (bass switch is less extreme but more useful now, IMO)
t1redhands
Active member
I'm interested in all opamp overdrives!
t1redhands
Active member
The original used silicon "BC" devices based on images. I put together the schematic based on images of the original circuit board and values people listed in that thread I linked. It was mentioned, and I can confirm, that higher gain devices work better that lower.
Only one guy in that thread seems to have been able to make this circuit work by omitting the inductor and sending the emitter of Q1 straight to ground. When I try that I am able to get a fuzz tone but the power supply oscillation gets very strong, resulting almost in a clicky tremolo effect. Happens with both a power supply and a 9V battery using either the voltage regulator/voltage divider or a plain voltage divider. Haven't tried a AA cell yet.
Chuck D. Bones
Circuit Wizard
I'm pretty sure I know why it's doing that. Try using a 1.5V battery and see if the motorboating goes away. I'm not supposed to be helping the competitors, so that's about as much assistance as I can offer at this time.
No offense, but all I have to go on is hearsay. I have no way of knowing if any part of that schematic is correct. The fact that someone thought there was a 47mH inductor in there lowers my confidence level significantly. I'd like to see a pic of a real messenger board, but there aren't any on FSB any more.
t1redhands
Active member
Sorry if this is taking over the contest thread - I thought it'd be a fun circuit to show off in this context considering the number of parts involved.
Yep my schematic is built entirely on conjecture, hearsay, and the best guesstimates of forum posts from over 15 years ago, lol.
Here's the layout I used to get my schematic:
And here's the best image I could find of the actual board using the wayback machine:
I also found a schematic from this page: https://www.nexp.pt/1.5_guitarpedals.html
The motorboating did indeed go away when using a AA battery. I tried using diodes to isolate the ground plane with the voltage regulator/divider combo and that didn't work at all. I'm going to do some more research and experimentation to figure out how to get a stable low voltage source from 9V.
The 47uH (correction) inductor was my pick. I've increased it to 1mH and I'll say it does something. Sort of like a little bass boost and a little more compression. More (fairly spicy) discussion about that here: https://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=82364.0
*Edited to add:* found another photo of a board from a Portuguese forum: http://www.handmades.com.br/forum/index.php?topic=9765.0
Last edited:
t1redhands
Active member
Final update from me on this schematic - I tried a buffered 1.5V supply using a TL061 and it sounds amazing. Lots of harmonics, some octaves, a usable gate control, and a bonus option to put a potentiometer on the voltage divider for saggy sounds. It also now can clean up (a little bit) with the guitar volume knob where it just got muddy before. The effect of the inductor is more apparent here, too, but still super super subtle. That puts it outside the constraints of this contest so I'll start a new thread when I get this boxed up.
Thanks!
Feral Feline
Well-known member
I collect bits 'n' bobs, so a quick check on my HD gave up this:
DON'T RECALL where it came from and there's no notes on the diagram itself. According to the HD info, I snagged it off the net this past November (28th) 2023.
I was going to post the above a couple days ago, did some more digging and most likely the above came from here:
DON'T RECALL where it came from and there's no notes on the diagram itself. According to the HD info, I snagged it off the net this past November (28th) 2023.
I was going to post the above a couple days ago, did some more digging and most likely the above came from here:
Last edited:
I thinks that may be an unauthorized format? Attachment won't open here on mobile
