I always thought tone was in the pedal!

H

HamishR

Well-known member
I've been looking for an overdrive specifically for my Strat for the past few years. I have found and even developed a few tasty ODs which suit my Gibsons and Gretsch very well, but the Strat has always been tricky. Especially as I can't stand Tubescreamers!

Today I modified my tweed Super based amp - I had built it with KT77 power tubes, Mercury Magnetic iron and a single 12" speaker - a Celestion Gold. I have built this circuit a few times to this recipe and it works really well with a Gretsch. But for a change I thought I'd go with 6L6s which is what it was designed to use, and stick a G12H Creamback in there to try. And my oh my... It sounds fantastic! The thing which really surprises me is just how amazing it sounds with a Strat. The Strat sounds killer with just my usual ODs through this amp now.

I think It's a combination of the two changes, but the 6L6s do sound a bit more gentle which the Strat seems to like. And the low end has shifted slightly. The Strat sounds huge.

This is such a great hobby.
 
HamishR said:
I've been looking for an overdrive specifically for my Strat for the past few years. I have found and even developed a few tasty ODs which suit my Gibsons and Gretsch very well, but the Strat has always been tricky. Especially as I can't stand Tubescreamers!

Today I modified my tweed Super based amp - I had built it with KT77 power tubes, Mercury Magnetic iron and a single 12" speaker - a Celestion Gold. I have built this circuit a few times to this recipe and it works really well with a Gretsch. But for a change I thought I'd go with 6L6s which is what it was designed to use, and stick a G12H Creamback in there to try. And my oh my... It sounds fantastic! The thing which really surprises me is just how amazing it sounds with a Strat. The Strat sounds killer with just my usual ODs through this amp now.

I think It's a combination of the two changes, but the 6L6s do sound a bit more gentle which the Strat seems to like. And the low end has shifted slightly. The Strat sounds huge.

This is such a great hobby.
Click to expand...
That’s why I find most YouTube demos of drive pedals- especially with people like JR Roncallo or whatever his name is- they take an amazing sounding amp, already distorted more than Angus Young or Jimmy Page every were (but they someone try to call that “clean tone”), then hit it with a drive pedal. Then you compare all of their demos and they sound the same. The amp has the biggest effect.
That said, I like most of my drives set for nearly max dirt, and matching volume with bypass in front of clean amps to simulate second channels. Often stacking pedals
Exception are with my DrZ, the only boost that seems to work well is a Klon type circuit so I can go from crunch to high gain. And with Marshalls I do like a tubescreamer the best with these.
Fenders? I can’t stand the sound of a cranked black/silver panel fender.
 
There is a level that you need to get an amp to before it will sound properly good, even with a pedal. Some amps need to be starting to break up, but a lot of my amps just need to be more than minimum volume. You can feel it start to kick when you play. I agree with Barry - I like to set most of my ODs to a fairly low dirt level and have them set ideally to just over unity. That's when things start to happen.

Sometimes at gig volumes I'm getting a little amp dirt, but with the volumes we play at these days most of the dirt is from the pedal, and the pedal pushing the amp slightly.

FWIW my slightly modified Snozberry OD is a great match with a Strat. It's possibly a little heavy of the midrange, and the tone controls don't do a lot, but it really does sound wonderful with a Strat. Especially into this amp. I also have a modded Protein Blue which sounds killer with a Strat and this amp.
 
HamishR said:
There is a level that you need to get an amp to before it will sound properly good, even with a pedal. Some amps need to be starting to break up, but a lot of my amps just need to be more than minimum volume. You can feel it start to kick when you play. I agree with Barry - I like to set most of my ODs to a fairly low dirt level and have them set ideally to just over unity. That's when things start to happen.

Sometimes at gig volumes I'm getting a little amp dirt, but with the volumes we play at these days most of the dirt is from the pedal, and the pedal pushing the amp slightly.

FWIW my slightly modified Snozberry OD is a great match with a Strat. It's possibly a little heavy of the midrange, and the tone controls don't do a lot, but it really does sound wonderful with a Strat. Especially into this amp. I also have a modded Protein Blue which sounds killer with a Strat and this amp.
Click to expand...
I played mostly through a Twin Reverb at practice I tried to keep it around 3, at gigs about 5 or 6 where the sweet spot was. It never had any dirt to speak of, but it really opened up at that level.
 
Wow. A twin reverb at 5-6 is LOUD! I used to gig on quite large stages with a Twin and never got it over 3. And we had a very loud drummer. And @Giorfida I'm with you - some tweed and brownface Fenders sound wonderful cranked but I have never liked the sound of a BF Fender cranked. I gigged for a year or two with a SRRI and used a tube OD pedal. The amp sounded ok cranked (not great) but way better driven with a pedal. It's weird because Reverend Horton Heat got some great sounds with a cranked Super Reverb. I never could.
 
HamishR said:
Wow. A twin reverb at 5-6 is LOUD! I used to gig on quite large stages with a Twin and never got it over 3. And we had a very loud drummer. And @Giorfida I'm with you - some tweed and brownface Fenders sound wonderful cranked but I have never liked the sound of a BF Fender cranked. I gigged for a year or two with a SRRI and used a tube OD pedal. The amp sounded ok cranked (not great) but way better driven with a pedal. It's weird because Reverend Horton Heat got some great sounds with a cranked Super Reverb. I never could.
Click to expand...
You have to consider most of our gigs were backyard parties, or outdoors at clubhouses and swimming pools. We weren't doing many bar gigs.
 
IMO . . . pedals are merely tone shapers; icing on the cake, if you will. The fundamental tone (the basic cake) is made up from the pickups, amp and guitar mass (in that order).
 
Barry said:
Fingers don't forget the fingers!
Click to expand...
To further elucidate with regard to fingers, I attribute fingers more to "style" and/or "signature" rather than tone. Fingers manipulate the pitch & harmonics more than "tone". One can have the exact same rig as someone like David Gilmour, but they will not have the same "playing "style" or "signature" as David.
 
Cybercow said:
To further elucidate with regard to fingers, I attribute fingers more to "style" and/or "signature" rather than tone. Fingers manipulate the pitch & harmonics more than "tone". One can have the exact same rig as someone like David Gilmour, but they will not have the same "playing "style" or "signature" as David.
Click to expand...
Prezackly.
 
Cybercow said:
To further elucidate with regard to fingers, I attribute fingers more to "style" and/or "signature" rather than tone. Fingers manipulate the pitch & harmonics more than "tone". One can have the exact same rig as someone like David Gilmour, but they will not have the same "playing "style" or "signature" as David.
Click to expand...
Exactly. If David Gilmour picked up a classical guitar, he would sound like David Gilmour playing a classical guitar, and not like Willie Nelson on a Classical… but he wouldn’t have the same tone he got on “Comfortably Numb”… likewise most of us could take the pedals we all have built and have a tone closer to Gilmour on Comfortably Numb than he’s getting on a classical. So fingers get you style, tone is more gear and how you dial it in.
 
Giorfida said:
Exactly. If David Gilmour picked up a classical guitar, he would sound like David Gilmour playing a classical guitar, and not like Willie Nelson on a Classical… but he wouldn’t have the same tone he got on “Comfortably Numb”… likewise most of us could take the pedals we all have built and have a tone closer to Gilmour on Comfortably Numb than he’s getting on a classical. So fingers get you style, tone is more gear and how you dial it in.
Click to expand...
FWIW, here’s Sir David’s guitar tech (Phil Taylor) on this topic:

“I think it's just pretty much him.

He is obviously using a couple of effects, like a Big Muff and a delay, but it really is just his fingers, his vibrato, his choice of notes and how he sets his effects.

I find it extraordinary when people think they can copy his sound by duplicating his gear.

In reality, no matter how well you duplicate the equipment, you will never be able to duplicate the personality.”
 
chris.knudson said:
You are 100% correct. In fact, I think the fingers are the most important element in shaping tone (especially for bass players). I know dudes that can make a $20 guitar sound awesome.
Click to expand...
But no matter whose fingers, I’ve yet to hear anyone make a nylon string classical sound like a Les Paul through a cranked Marshall with delay, chorus and reverb… fingers only get you so far
 
A “Tone” that I’ve enjoyed lately is boosting and clipping the signal, and then turning the volume down to a reasonable level. I use an always on MOSFET boost, into a slightly overdriven Fuzz, into a Distortion 250. The sound is wide and mid heavy. Then at the end, before reverb, I use a SHO boost, with lower volume. The sound and feel is somewhat “folded” and the air it pushes I feel in my throat. It’s crumbled and I find it relaxing.
It’s not an always on sound, for every song. But an occasional sludge. Great for slow ballads.
And when the Circulator Phaser gets kicked on, it’s a splendid washy wave.
 
These are often used interchangably, and since there is a somewhat detailed discussion happening, it may be helpful to distinguish between the two.

Timber is a subset of Tone.

Tone = a musical or vocal sound with reference to its pitch, quality, and strength.

Timbre = the character or quality of a musical sound or voice as distinct from its pitch and intensity.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top