Range Finder Volume Issue?

[hateboardlove]

Hi all! This is my second build, and I'm getting a pretty significant volume drop problem I believe. Although it is also a bit more noisy than I think is normal. The only thing I can think of myself is that the transistors I'm using must be too weak? Trying to bias I have the multimeter black connecter to the ground on the auditorium test platform and the red on the collector and only read a max of a little over -1, as I understand this should be somewhere around -4.5? It's extremely loud as well, sounding as if it may not be grounded somewhere?

Another thing that is slightly confusing to me is the trim pots on almost all pcbs have 5 pins while the trimmers I've seen to order all only have 3 pins, while soldering this circuit I just added some solder to those extra two holes but I don't really understand what is going on there and would love to know about that if someone could explain this? I've looked around myself but haven't been able to find this out myself.

Major mistakes during the build I made were soldering the rotary switch and potentiometer on the wrong side so had to cut the rotary switch apart to get it off and scratched the pcb a bit and it is showing a bit of the copper circuit I think. The connections for the those two switches are now the right side but they are not super tight to the pcb. Could any of this be the problem?

Those 2 things are the only big errors in making this but aside from the transistor maybe being weak I'm not sure where a volume drop may be occurring, though it could be my beginners soldering skills too but would love some help on this! Thank you in advance to anybody who has the time!\ Also any tips opinions regarding my soldering or anything else they see I would love to hear it!

soundcloud audio clips for full volume, half volume and on off test between the pedal and bypassed with an ac30 patch on my hxstomp:

https://soundcloud.com/gnarmy_dizzle%2Fsets%2Frangefindertest

 

[spi]

Usually a rangemaster type circuit biases around -7V. Do you know what the hfe and leakage of your transistor are? Also, are you sure you know which leads are which? Old transistors don't have consistent pinouts.

The 5 holes for trimmer are to accommodate different sized trimmers. The middle hole is fixed and you should use the other two holes that best match the size of your trimpot. No need to fill the unused hole with solder, although doing so should have no impact.

 

[hateboardlove]

https://soundcloud.com/gnarmy_dizzle%2Fsets%2Frangefindertest

Usually a rangemaster type circuit biases around -7V. Do you know what the hfe and leakage of your transistor are? Also, are you sure you know which leads are which? Old transistors don't have consistent pinouts.

The 5 holes for trimmer are to accommodate different sized trimmers. The middle hole is fixed and you should use the other two holes that best match the size of your trimpot. No need to fill the unused hole with solder, although doing so should have no impact.

yes I've seen the voltage is usually much higher than the readings I'm getting and I was thinking this may be the issue if low voltage=volume drops, though with little experience I wouldn't know and haven't been able to find anything on that in particular. and no i'm not sure what the hfe or leakage of either 2 transistors I have are, I still need to put together a little test thing together because i'm still still a bit new to all this so was going to try skipping that and just testing them in the pedal, though i'm going to get on that right after i eat some food since i've been at this too long now haha actually i read over some details again just now and i was reading the wrong leg of the transistor. so i do have the voltage now set right at 7v. but i do still need to measure hfe and leakage now

 

[spi]

It's not essential to know the hfe, but it's good to know as rangemaster's usually like transistors within a range. Not that it won't work outside that range though.

As for volume drop and noise. I listened to your clips and not sure exactly what they are representing. I mean, it sounds pretty loud to me at the end of the full and half volume clips, so I don't know what the volume loss you are referring to. You also said in your initial post there's a volume drop but also that it's extremely loud, so I was confused by those comments as well.

And any circuit with a lot of gain will have noise--I do hear some noise but nothing outside the bounds of what I'd expect.

 

[hateboardlove]

It's not essential to know the hfe, but it's good to know as rangemaster's usually like transistors within a range. Not that it won't work outside that range though.

As for volume drop and noise. I listened to your clips and not sure exactly what they are representing. I mean, it sounds pretty loud to me at the end of the full and half volume clips, so I don't know what the volume loss you are referring to. You also said in your initial post there's a volume drop but also that it's extremely loud, so I was confused by those comments as well.

And any circuit with a lot of gain will have noise--I do hear some noise but nothing outside the bounds of what I'd expect.

That is very helpful, thank you! by extremely loud I meant the noise from the gain. I've looked online at another person youtube videos giving an example of this pedal and this is what i'm basing my assumption that a volume loss is happening mostly, where they have the pedal at half volume and it seems to be boosting the level of the amp output already, on the flipside when my pedal is at the same settings, my pedal cuts the volume instead of boosting it. So i'm not positive but from examples i've heard mine sounds like trash on the first few knobs comparatively. the 4 knob and above do sound pretty good to my ears, but the first knobs basically sound shrill.

also, i think my on/off track is labeled badly. it should really be off/on in the context of the pedal, sorry there. the first sound is from my amp itself, the next sound which is a reaally noticeable volume cut is when the pedal is turned on.

also, not sure if open distortion may give any hints as to the problem but i do notice that the open noise from this pedal vs my kot or broadcast is a pretty different kind of noise, like when something isn't grounded the open noise you hear is kind of specific. i added another track to that playlist i posted for reference too.

Thanks for all the help btw!

 

[hateboardlove]

so yeah just to make it clearer, it should be really evident if you play the on/off clip as a reference, the first sounds you hear is my amp, then all the the half volume tracks may make more sense, ill also upload a comparison of full volume for bypassed, rangefinder, then kot and broadcast for a better reference of what i might expect from a full volume pedal.

 

[hateboardlove]

okay so this test should make it more apparent, the sounds that appear are in order of bypassed, rangefinder, kot, broadcast, rangefinder all at full volume on each pedal. the gain from the rangefinder is also more apparent than any of the other pedals, maybe i just need to test the hfe and leakage haha. if there is a large amount of leakage would that result in lower volumes?

https://soundcloud.com/gnarmy_dizzle%2Fbypassedrangefinderkotbroadcastrangefinder-full-voume

 

[hateboardlove]

also this is the yt video im using as a reference for how it should sound. his pedal is at like half volume settings but the output actually matches his amps output volume, where as mine is cutting the volume a bit even when maxed out.

 

[spi]

Thanks, that last clip makes it more clear what you mean by volume drop and noise. Something does seem amiss.

 

[KR Sound]

Make sure you’re positive that all your component values are correct and the transistor is situated correctly.

 

[hateboardlove]

Thanks, that last clip makes it more clear what you mean by volume drop and noise. Something does seem amiss.

Make sure you’re positive that all your component values are correct and the transistor is situated correctly.

jesus i feel a bit stoopid now haha after reading your comment i thought, maybe i am just wrong on the transistor legs.. you were both right i think! with the transistor slotted differently i'm now getting the appropriate volume output and the strange grounding noise went away and the hiss is more on par with all of my other pedals, though with a bit more noise probably due to the germanium effect. thank you so much!

 

[hateboardlove]

Usually a rangemaster type circuit biases around -7V. Do you know what the hfe and leakage of your transistor are? Also, are you sure you know which leads are which? Old transistors don't have consistent pinouts.

The 5 holes for trimmer are to accommodate different sized trimmers. The middle hole is fixed and you should use the other two holes that best match the size of your trimpot. No need to fill the unused hole with solder, although doing so should have no impact.

jesus i feel a bit stoopid now haha after reading through another persons comment i thought, maybe i am just wrong on the transistor legs.. you were both right i think! and your first thought was right on the money haha with the transistor slotted differently i'm now getting the appropriate volume output and the strange grounding noise went away and the hiss is more on par with all of my other pedals, though with a bit more noise probably due to the germanium effect. now this really sounds like what i'd expect a rangemaster to sound like! thank you so much for the help! and sorry for wasting a bit of your time on the last few comments, I should've checked the transistor with an ear test more extensively since i wasn't testing by multimeter, this was definitely a learning experience i will be sure to take away from!

 

[hamerfan]

All of us are making stupid mistakes while building a pedal, but over the time we became better in finding them without help.

 

[KR Sound]

Awesome. It’s usually a little thing like that. Glad it’s working for you!

 

[spi]

I've made this mistake before. Glad you got it sorted out.

 

[hateboardlove]

Awesome. It’s usually a little thing like that. Glad it’s working for you!

All of us are making stupid mistakes while building a pedal, but over the time we became better in finding them without help.

true enough! haha these forums are a super awesome help!