Unnecessarily Aesthetic Pedals

No. No. No. Hold up. Wait a minute.
They're all old circuits except my circuit. No one has ever used these diodes like this. 99 out of 100 compensated YouTubers agree, it's the magic mojo you all need.
They're selling a product. I think we can agree that all the sounds have already been made. So the only differentiator left is the packaging and marketing.

Providing (or providing an illusion of) a quality product lets you adjust the pricing accordingly. More margin, less work. Good on them and great for us to have a laugh about the marketing spiel.
 
Berating people/companies for listing they use quality components? C'mon.
I see forumites berating products for not having enough/any info about what's inside.


I see nothing wrong with adding a laundry list of what's what inside your (a manufacturer's) pedal.
I bought some crap Chinese jacks, but I lost the crap-shoot because, well, shoot — they were CRAP.
They were literally jack-shaped-objects that didn't work from the get-go.
So if I tell you I switched that crap out for Switchcraft, you know what the quality is.



NOTHING WRONG WITH LAUNDRY LIST OF "BRAND" names, at least then you know the electrolytics aren't going to puke the first time you plug it in and might actually last longer than brand-generic.

What I don't like is when the laundry list is SHORT, and the padding begins — Adding fluffy cork-sniffery VAGUE-statements about stuff that does NOT matter at all. You have 2–3 items in the list, it LOOKS SHORT, "short must be bad, we must pad".



People like to know what they're getting.
Does your car come with a generic radio, or for an "upgrade" were you able to choose Pioneer or Marantz with Bose speakers?
Who the F cares? The people who want something that sounds good but don't want to rip apart their brand new car to install an aftermarket stereo that defies the laws of diminishing-returns and costs more than the car itself.



Somebody installs a pedal into an old phone or starts making amps from vintage toasters — it's quirky, it's fun and if you don't like it...
MOVE ON, buy something else that you DO like.


Some people are triggered to buy when they see that laundry list and hear/read the perfume sniffery — let them buy that whale-blubber and stink.

Aesthetics MATTER because somebody's gonna look at that (your) pedal and think "that's f'in cool"
and somebody else is going to think "that looks like f'in crap". If aesthetics didn't matter we wouldn't have threads about how to decorate our pedals. Some people want a simple label in an easy-to-read font; some people want an outlandish graphic with control names that only make sense to them.
GREAT! something for everyone, whatever their taste.

AESTHETICS matter because we all have varying tastes, and hopefully can get / buy / build what we like instead of being force-fed what exists because that's the way it is, uh huh, and you must like it, uh-huh uhn-huh, because there are no options.




Besides that...
I see build reports all the time about using "these resistors" or "that OG NOS Unobtanium transistor" when a bog-standard 2N3904 would do...
 
You can look up the longer story, but here's the synopsis from a Reddit TIL: "The Chivas Regal effect is when an increase in price of a product drives increased sales without a change in quality of the product. This happens because consumers frequently associate quality with cost."

Chivas Regal didn't sell well. So they increased the price, making people think the quality must be better at a higher price. They ended up banking more with the exact same product. It's fucking stupid. But it works. If you're in the business of making money with your effort, you'd be an idiot not to take advantage the silly quirks of the human mind. It's too hard to compute the value of an item if you're not deeply familiar with its production, so the shortcut is going for something that's more expensive. Almost too easy in a world where choice has become a burden.
 
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I, for one, believe that using awesome name-brand components with fancy sounding names is a fantastic means of giving the component manufacturer more of the money that you would otherwise be pocketing, cause god knows it doesn't increase the price one can command for a stompbox.

I mean, there is something there. What difference does it make if you have a table made out of Cherry-veneered MDF or solid Cherry?

They both do the same job. They both are similar looking on the outside. But the fact that one is using *real* cherry to build a table could be an indicator that the craftsman cared about more than just churning out a cheap product for as much profit as possible.

God knows you can't do mortise and tenon joinery with MDF. At least, not with the same structural advantages that you get with solid wood. The MDF table is probably all pocket holes.

Granted: does it matter? Maybe. Maybe something breaks on a stompbox and you open it up, and are pleasantly surprised at the clean layout and can clearly follow what's supposed to go where and a little quick dash of the iron gets you back on track.

But I'm the kind of guy that doesn't much care for MDF, and because I like the feel and strength of solid wood, I decided to learn how to do a little bit of woodworking...so I can make my own pieces of furniture. That aren't entirely terrible. Mostly.

My point: materials can be a proxy for the presence of passion. Somebody who really enjoys creating what it is that they create, and wants to use *special* ingredients to make their creations. Like, because it makes their stick hearts feel good. It can also be a stupid cash grab for marketing's sake.

Which, in my upcoming business venture, I plan to fully exploit as I abuse the customer into accepting my position that pedals are art, worth romanticizing, and also very very expensive give me all your money bitch right now in the bag this is NOT A FUCKING JOKE THIS IS A ROBBERY.
While you're not wrong, it's my responsibility to argue with you because I use SMD for almost everything so I've developed a complex about people's perception of component choice.

What bothers me is how many people do unimaginative and often downright garbage work with high-end components while others do insanely creative work with modern "non-mojo" components. You can do a clean, clearly followable layout with modern boring components, and you can do a spaghetti mess dumpster fire with mojo components.

All other factors being equal, is a solid cherry table going to be nicer than an MDF table? Absolutely. But what if the MDF table was designed and built carefully by a competent carpenter while the solid cherry table was roughly thrown together by an amateur with no experience? Good materials are nice, but by themselves aren't anything worth drawing attention to in my opinion.
 
I also just find it particularly funny when in a lot of instances (not specifically this one here, just speaking generally now) you'll see attention drawn to things that are more or less "standard" parts or at least ones that are wholly unremarkable, if that makes sense...

Like, I can't tell you how many times I've seen a product listing where they start listing out the details and it'll say things like "Metal Film Resistors" "Polyester Film Capacitors" as though those are selling points. That's like me selling a car and saying it has "Rubber Tires".
Or, as was previously mentioned, stuff that is basically "industry standard" - "Comes with a JRC(TM) 4558 IC!" I mean...okay? I guess it is better than unbranded Aliexpress mystery components but that's a pretty low bar to clear.

It's like...I'm pretty confident if you put up a listing and was like "Uses genuine ROYAL OHM 5% METAL FILM resistors," for a lot of people that's more appealing than saying nothing at all. Never mind that there's actually nothing remarkable about "Royal Ohm" resistors you bought from Tayda, but it looks nicer when you put a name to it...

And I mean I can't fault folks for trying. I don't have any beef, I just think some of it is a little silly and/or stretching the limits of ones' ad-selling... :P
 
You can look up the longer story, but here's the synopsis from a Reddit TIL: "The Chivas Regal effect is when an increase in price of a product drives increased sales without a change in quality of the product. This happens because consumers frequently associate quality with cost."

Chivas Regal didn't sell well. So they increased the price, making people think the quality must be better at a higher price. They ended up banking more with the exact same product. It's fucking stupid. But it works. If you're in the business of making money with your effort, you'd be an idiot not to take advantage the silly quirks of the human mind. It's too hard to compute the value of an item if you're not deeply familiar with its production, so the shortcut is going something that's more expensive. Almost too easy in a world where choice has become a burden.
Exactly what Louis Vuitton did. Poor sales? Hike the price and sell more! LV nearly went out of business apparently. Raising prices saved them.

It's funny... I'm not swayed by brand names as a rule, especially in fashion. But I do like my Schott bike jackets. And I actually wear them while (gasp!) riding a motorbike. I do wear Levis but that's because they are the cheapest option that fit well where I live. I used to wear Doc Martens but after the last pair failed because they are not made like they used to be I won't be buying them any more.

And when it comes to amps and pedals I will only use Switchcraft jacks in amps and Lumberg or Neutrik in pedals. I like CTS pots in amps, although that is changing as CTS aren't what they once were. For switches it has to be Carling for Fender style amps. These options don't make the pedal or amp I'm building cost any more, especially in the long run.

I love how when sellers list the components they use in pedals they list "NOS" parts. A lot of the time when I see NOS I just think oh, old. Especially where capacitors are concerned.
 
They're selling a product. I think we can agree that all the sounds have already been made. So the only differentiator left is the packaging and marketing.

Eh, I disagree. A bit.

With the "only differentiator" bit. Not as a whole. But actually I agree with everything. Yes.

I'm not particularly fond of applying maximalist market logic to all things bought and sold.

Granted: yeah. Products. Commodities. All the things. In a purely logical sense: the cheapest product that does the job adequately tends to win that game.

But that's also a market that the average, small-time, limited-scale builder can't ever hope to compete on. But not every business needs to be purely based on maximized profit and scalability. Maybe there's somebody out there that just kinda likes building pedals and does so in their free time. And maybe supporting said builders isn't just about falling prey to marketing and packaging, but in appreciating the work that someone does.

I dunno. I'm a soft, squishy stickman who likes kittens and fun and it kinda seems to me like that's what music is all about. Fun. Acknowledging the fruits of each other's labor. Appreciating attention to detail, craftsmanship, and skill. Whether it be a song, a stage show, a guitar, an amp, a pedal...

They're all kinda interwoven into the same ecosystem. They feed each other. My particular offense to something like "applizing" pedals is just...fuck dude. That's boring as hell. I don't want my pedal to look like a computer. I want music to take me *away* from the computer. Cause tech can be great, but it's also kinda slowly destroying our connections to the things that make life worthwhile.

TL;DR: My point is circuitous and woo-woo and soft. But I am a soft stickman, goddammit, and I appreciate when folks do the best they damned well can with the skills at their disposal and do so with a sense of joy and craft.

I am also a jaded and cynical stickman, and I know that sometimes folks are just out to make maximal profits with limited skills by dressing things up with crystals and terrible bling as a facsimile of the above while putting out a terrible product and scamming the everloving fuck out of people.

And thus, here I am. Trapped in cognitive dissonance and absolutely refusing to budge.
 
Probably all been said, but

1740155034969.png

Are you planning on performing every show remotely from your immaculately kept home studio? on stage with some hermetically sealed pedal board with one of those clear keyboard cover things my school teachers had? or are you expected to touch the foot switches with these on your designer shoes/boots?
1740155245783.png

I totally get a pedal isn't going to stay pristine over years of use, but there's a threshold, and this fine brushed metal, B&O aspiring look crosses over. Is it nice and Apple-like? Sure. But I don't see the point--the point of this thread, I suppose.
 
Exactly what Louis Vuitton did. Poor sales? Hike the price and sell more! LV nearly went out of business apparently. Raising prices saved them.

Marketing is a silly thing. Exclusivity is a means to artificially inflate prices. Louis Vuitton is...well...

They have some talented designers. But their success is also an indicator of late-capitalist decline into excess.

Their products have overly inflated prices compared to the cost to produce. Their selling point is the fact that they *are* expensive, in that buying and wearing their products acts as a signal to other human ape-beings that you are, in fact, the shit and can afford to buy absurdly expensive clothing and accessories. You're not buying the product: you're buying clout with the rest of the tribe.

Fashion isn't all like that though. It can be fun. Personally: I love some good, classic work wear styles. Denim in particular has a special place in my heart.

But, I generally don't buy Levi's, because Levi's don't tend to last very long for my purposes. The same is true of Carhartt, actually: B01's used to be my go-to. Nowadays...something's changed with the materials they use. The canvas isn't as rugged. Their commitment to a lower price point appears to have impacted the materials that they use.

So...there's alternatives. In terms of something along the same lines of what we're talking about here:

1620 workwear makes pants out of a cotton/nylon blend. Technical fabric, about 13oz. It is incredibly tough stuff and lasts *forever*. BUT...they mass produced the shit out of them and sell a pair for damned near 200 dollars a pop. You look inside a brand new pair, and the stitching is poorly secured, loose threads everywhere, and every pair I've ever had has had issues somewhere along the line with construction.

That is a company that uses fantastic components, but tends to execute a less than stellar product.

On the other hand, the company that I tend to buy my pants from is a smaller company:

Brave Star Selvedge. They operate on the lower side of the "high end" for pants and such, but they do everything in small batches using quality, albeit traditional, fabrics. They make an *awesome* pair of double-knee work pants. Everything from the fit, to the construction, to the materials adds together to make something that I'm willing to send a good $130 on, because I can wear a single pair day in and day out for 6 months straight before I need to consider buying a new pair and rotating.

And they just *feel good* to wear. Something about the kinesthetic elements of fabrics gets to me.

So...back to the discussion:

Music equipment. It's hard to say that one buys a Gibson because it's the best guitar available at the price point. That is because A) it is absolutely not, and B) what the hell are you talking about?

One buys a brand new Gibson for the same reason that one buys LV: human ape-beings. The influence they have on us, and the influence we desire to have on others.

I own a Gibson. Same one I've had since I was 16: a Les Paul Studio Lite. I still love that guitar, but I also own an LEF: I bought that from an independent builder on Facebook, and I bought it for a song, because it was just the barebones body and neck. And it's *awesome*.

There's plenty of guitars out there that are made competently and as cheaply as possible (I own a few of those as well), but there's room for those folks who are just working on passion projects too.

For me, I see the primary difference as being one of scale. Is it a cynical company that is just trying to use hype clout to sell their stuff? Is it a cynical builder that doesn't care about his end product and just wants an edge over other builders because they use magic diodes?

Or: is it a builder who's skill might not lie in being the absolute best electrical engineer in an audio space, but knows how to build existing circuits very well and does so with great care and craft?

I'm open to both possibilities. God knows I fall into none of the above, being a hack and a fraud and all.
 
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Are you planning on performing every show remotely from your immaculately kept home studio? on stage with some hermetically sealed pedal board with one of those clear keyboard cover things my school teachers had? or are you expected to touch the foot switches with these on your designer shoes/boots?

Nah, bruh. That's why you use a MIDI switcher and stick the pedal behind a plexiglass-lined compartment in your rack with a specially trained stage light focused directly on the thing.

See. Don't touch.
 
You can look up the longer story, but here's the synopsis from a Reddit TIL: "The Chivas Regal effect is when an increase in price of a product drives increased sales without a change in quality of the product. This happens because consumers frequently associate quality with cost."

Chivas Regal didn't sell well. So they increased the price, making people think the quality must be better at a higher price. They ended up banking more with the exact same product. It's fucking stupid. But it works. If you're in the business of making money with your effort, you'd be an idiot not to take advantage the silly quirks of the human mind. It's too hard to compute the value of an item if you're not deeply familiar with its production, so the shortcut is going something that's more expensive. Almost too easy in a world where choice has become a burden.


Been there done that.


Worked for a wholesaler bicycle company. We brought in a cheap and cheerful pump that worked at a great price-point.

Let me round down/up the math (don't remember the exact figures but this is close enough to illustrate):

Manufacturer > Wholesaler = $9​
Wholesaler > Bike Shops = $15​
Bike Shops > Joey Consumer Cyclist = $19​


A decent pump The Happy Cyclist could get for less than $20 before PST/GST.

Bike shops were NOT buying it. It was too cheap. We were stuck with thousands of this pump.
I showed the pump to the shop-owners, they looked at it hemmed and hawed and handed it back to me.
The few shop-owners that did buy them told me they couldn't sell them in the shop. Nobody wanted this pump.


Two-to-Three months later, still not selling and stuck with thousands of the pump. The Western Regional Sales Manager finally convinces the Wholesaler Head Honcho to RAISE the price, not lower it, to blow out the pumps:

Manufacturer > Wholesaler = $9 (No change, of course)​
Wholesaler > Bike Shops = $21​
Bike Shops > Joey Consumer Cyclist = $29.99​

The pumps started selling like the bargain they would've been before the price-hike, but were now just under $30 retail.
That part I remember clearly, the pumps were just under the $30 mark at retail.
I showed the same pump to the SAME people-shop-owners, told them "I've showed you this before, but we had to raise the price"
They knew they were buying the same thing. Some admitted to kicking themselves for not buying when they were cheaper.

We couldn't keep them in stock, more container-loads from overseas were ordered.
The Bike Shops couldn't keep them in stock.
The end customer got a pump that when it finally died, they felt they'd gotten their monies'-worth and would buy the same pump again. It was just good enough to warrant such a reaction, just good enough to be abused yet last and last a good long time if cared for properly.







...Good materials are nice, but by themselves aren't anything worth drawing attention to in my opinion.

Disagree completely.
Good Materials ARE worth drawing attention to. The MDF table can be marketed to draw attention to the design and craftsmanship, but joey-consumer still knows that at that price-point, they're getting an MDF table but ACCEPTS that because of the price-point and has bit into the better design&craftsmanship cookie. Personally I don't want an MDF table no matter how fckin well it's designed with exoskeleton resin-coating to keep it together, made in pre-formed pieces with helix-coils for assembly without having to cut anything that would damage the structural integrity, steel reinforced rods throughout, our craftsman examine each table by hand and sign off on a quality-control-sticker so they're accountable if a defect slips through.

FKUC MDF, I don't like nor want MDF.
Too much experience with bad MDF.


IF a Tube-Pedal Manufacturer sells me a tube-pedal and it comes unadvertised with a "Double-Happiness Long-Long Life" tube in it, I'm going to want to tube roll.

I once wasn't convinced tubes could make such a difference, buncha cork-sniffery nonsense, couldn't hear it in the numerous youtube vids doing such comparisons.​
My amp Sifu got some of his Old-Stock RCA, GE and MIL-Spec metal-encased tubes out and we spent an evening trying different tubes comparing them to the MIC ones of various quality. Even the top MIC tube couldn't hold a grid/plate voltage to the "run-of-the-mill" NOS NAmerican/European tubes.​

That tube-rolling evening was an ear-opener for me, made me a believer, so if that Tube-Pedal Manufacturer offers a pedal advertised to come with NOS JAN tubes I'm more likely to be interested. IF the same Tube-Pedal Manufacturer shipping the pedals with JAN also suggests trying a TELEFUNKEN or a MULLARD in the pedal, I'm gonna wanna try but mostly I'll just cry 'cause I can't afford those higher-end glass-bottles.


...

Like, I can't tell you how many times I've seen a product listing where they start listing out the details and it'll say things like "Metal Film Resistors" "Polyester Film Capacitors" as though those are selling points. That's like me selling a car and saying it has "Rubber Tires".
...

And I mean I can't fault folks for trying. I don't have any beef, I just think some of it is a little silly and/or stretching the limits of ones' ad-selling... :P

It IS a selling point. For the MUFF-fanatics, those metal-film resistors won't have the mojo or capture the classic sound that carbon-composite resistors are "known and loved for". They won't buy that pedal. Gotta be carbon-comp.

It IS a selling point, the metal-film resistors, to the people that want the best MUFF possible without an insane noise-floor and who don't buy into all the mojo-malarky of carbon-composite — they don't know anything about electronics, but they've compared their friend's original EHX Ram's Head to their other friend's Wren & Cuff Caprid Ram's Head-knockoff and preferred the Caprid.

Polyester film caps? Who cares about that? Don't bother telling me what they are, unless they're hand-rolled paper-in-oil then tell me and I'll buy it 'cause that's all I'll buy — hand-rolled PIO.


You're right though, it can get silly.



Who here isn't going to sit up and take notice that a manufacturer is using Switchcraft or Neutrik or Lumberg?
We've either EXPERIENCED the difference ourselves between crap and branded known-good materials/components, or we've read about a fellow forumite's EXPERIENCE, somebody we trust to give us the straight shot.

When Robert says he just uses Tadya-purchased caps, I relax and think "yeah, here's somebody that knows a thing or two and that's what I've been using." Great, no need to buy the Niche-ee-con caps, save a few bucks.

When my MIC jacks turned out to be soft pot-metal that's so bad they were good for one or two plug inserts and then stopped working, I came to the forum and saw that HamishR has had success with Switchcraft, Lumberg and Neutrik — I explore further and find others who only use those branded known-good components.

After my finding fault with a generic DC jack, and reading several threads/posts/comments/opinions about ONLY buying quality DC jacks from Lumberg, I take note. I take note when the laundry-list for the pedal-that-I-cannot-DIY-but-want has Lumberg DC jack and Neutrik jacks for the in&out, I'm reassured my spending money is less likely to have been wasted.








The line of where advertising copy crosses from useful to frivolous changes with each person that draws that line.




Now I'm going to go to the Wish List and ask for a pedal, but...
I'm not going to tell any of you why I want it, nor why YOU should want it
I'm not going to provide a picture, a review, a soundcloud, a youtube vid
I'm not going to give a laundry-list of its attributes,
In fact, I'm not even gonna tell you what it is.
 
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Nah, bruh. That's why you use a MIDI switcher and stick the pedal behind a plexiglass-lined compartment in your rack with a specially trained stage light focused directly on the thing.

See. Don't touch.
Don't forget the roadie-techie, to operate it for you from backstage — wouldn't want to get your playing-fingertips soiled or work up a sweat running around the stage to and from a pedalboard.
 
@Feral Feline

I feel seen. I now challenge you to an essay-off.

How is it that we've gotten this far in the conversation that nobody's mentioned "Free The Tone" yet?

Ahem:

FEATURES
New HTS (Holistic Tonal Solution) Circuit: The Integrated Series device implements our renewed HTS (Holistic Tonal Solution) circuit. Unlike conventional buffer circuits, this newly designed circuit brings out individual sound characteristics of your guitar and amplifier to the utmost while providing impedance conversion and establishing both the ideal sound and low noise.
FREE THE TONE Custom Knobs: We developed a custom turned brass knob to reduce vibrations in the shaft and wiper of the semi-fixed resistor used for each control and suppress harmonic components that might adversely affect sound.
Casing Design*: All of the parameters of a case -dimensions and plate thickness of the case – affect overdrive sound. We employed the best size case for our Integrated Series to provide the ideal sound. Its weight has also been optimized to deliver the best sound.
FREE THE TONE’s Unique IC Tone Plate: This metal plate for damping and shielding covers the top of an IC chip to make the most of the characteristics of the IC and to prevent noise contamination to the utmost.
Passive Tone Circuit: We adopted a passive tone circuit that minimizes the phase shift in guitar signals.

*Because a pedal’s case provides a signal ground (0 V) and shielding, changing the material, size and thickness of the case can change the sound of the pedal.
The capacitance between the case and any signal lines inside the case can also affect sound quality.

Them fools giving off some serious MMS vibes.
 
Free The Tone FUCKING BULLSHIT!

THERE! I held it in as much as I could, but I'm not superhuman.
I dunno man. I find it oddly inspiring.

Like: damn. You ain't gonna hit every time you swing, but *holy shit* that's a *really* big swing!

"Mmmmm. Yes. I do not use a conventional buffer. I use this other thing that is special and does the same thing as a buffer but with fairy dust and unicorn farts. Yes."
 
"Sir! Have you not considered the capacitance between your pedal enclosure and signal conductors?!?!? Well, we have. And we have optimized it. Yes."

I'm just envisioning a Dirk Gently-esque situation where the builder says whatever bullshit in an attempt to be as wrong as possible, only to accidently stumble onto the truth.

Then, the builder shakes his fist at the night sky, shouting at God or whomever to "stop it!"

And it's making me smile.
 
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