Zapper Woes

peccary

peccary

Well-known member
I finally got a few hours in the garage this morning to finish up a couple of Zappers I have been working on. Feeling a little frustrated because I have had very little time to myself these past couple of weeks (very difficult for me to deal with as an anxiety-ridden introvert) and I think that I put too much pressure on myself to get things done today when I normally am able to go in at my own pace and have fun. In the rush to complete things I turned out two builds that aren't nearly as tidy as I normally do and (surprise) neither work. I tried to do both at the same time and should have done one then the other. I knew I was making a mistake when I started but didn't change for whatever reason - I thought I could get away with it, I guess. I'll show me!

Anyways, I haven't done any troubleshooting on my own so I'm not going to start a troubleshooting thread yet, but I did want to confirm that the one Zapper that actually passes sound when activated is not working properly (the other bypasses the signal but there's no signal when activated, which actually worries me less for some reason). In the demos I've heard of the original pedal the Zapper should be able to get pretty wacky but I couldn't find any here.

Sorry for the terrible video quality. Like I said: time to myself is at a minimum so there is an 18 month old in the background watching Sesame Street and my bass is in a stand as I just randomly slap strings in out teeny little house. Again, I really just want to make sure that this is not doing what it should be doing.

Thanks!

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Your Zapper sounds like it is working for all of the pots. You are not getting a cocked wah sound that I get on guitar for some of the freq rotation, but that may have more to do with the bass frequencies. I've heard that when Zappa was using this pedal he had someone else twiddling with the freq dial while he was playing.

And hang in there with the other things going on around you. Time flies, and there will be times in the future where you look back and miss some of those things.
 
I found myself underwhelmed by the Energizer. I finally got the Zappa nasal sound out of the Systech Overdrive. Which is actually a fuzz and extreme eq.
 
zgrav said:
Your Zapper sounds like it is working for all of the pots. You are not getting a cocked wah sound that I get on guitar for some of the freq rotation, but that may have more to do with the bass frequencies. I've heard that when Zappa was using this pedal he had someone else twiddling with the freq dial while he was playing.

And hang in there with the other things going on around you. Time flies, and there will be times in the future where you look back and miss some of those things.
Click to expand...

Alright, that's some positive news. Thanks! A lot of the various versions of this pedal kind of had a buzzsaw sound and I assumed that was the S.H.E. but maybe they had some dirt in the path as well. I'd read that Les Claypool used one to get that sound on Making Plans for Nigel but there's likely some other stuff going on there, too.

I made one of these to give away so if this is working as intended I'll probably hand it off and work on mine. I should probably pick up a cheapie electric guitar one of these days.

And thanks for the kind words as well. I really appreciate it.
 
zgrav said:
Your Zapper sounds like it is working for all of the pots. You are not getting a cocked wah sound that I get on guitar for some of the freq rotation, but that may have more to do with the bass frequencies. I've heard that when Zappa was using this pedal he had someone else twiddling with the freq dial while he was playing.

And hang in there with the other things going on around you. Time flies, and there will be times in the future where you look back and miss some of those things.
Click to expand...

Just wanted to revisit this today to say thanks again for talking me off the ledge yesterday. I plugged in the functioning Zapper today and played with is while not frustrated and found a lot more sounds and had a lot more fun with it. I think that as you said it is voiced more for the guitar. Not to mention this pedal is kind of weird in terms of what it's actually doing, and understanding how to be effective with it takes some experimentation.

With the gain dimed and the frequency full counter-clockwise and the bandwidth full clockwise I'm getting that crazy buzzing I was looking for. This might be a good circuit for me to play with one of these days down the line to see if I can make those parameters more responsive to bass frequencies. It can add some nice roundness and warmth as-is, though, but I don't have much use for the other, nasaly/tinny end of the spectrum personally.
 
Oh, man... I am so embarrassed.

I took a look at a photo I took of the guts a little bit ago and found that I put an IC in upside down :ROFLMAO:

The IC was blown so I put a new one in and it's all good now. This is a good reminder that when you start to feel frustrated it's best to just sit things down and take a step back for a while.
 
Glad you got to the bottom of the problem.

Rested eyes is good, Peccary. Not so easy with a wee 'un running underfoot.
Yesterday I could carry my niece and nephew in each of my crooked elbows. Today, when I crook my elbows their grubby mitts latch on to my forearms for their Gu-tseng (uncle) to transform into a fairground "helicopter" ride. Tomorrow my crooked elbows will be bent out of shape by arthritis and they'll be up to my armpits and studying in college and ignoring any advice I may give.


Oh, and the Systech OD has a 1n input cap you may want to socket and change up if you build that circuit. My Systech PCB is waiting for its turn, as are so many circuits, and I just noticed the puny input.
 
Feral Feline said:
Glad you got to the bottom of the problem.

Rested eyes is good, Peccary. Not so easy with a wee 'un running underfoot.
Yesterday I could carry my niece and nephew in each of my crooked elbows. Today, when I crook my elbows their grubby mitts latch on to my forearms for their Gu-tseng (uncle) to transform into a fairground "helicopter" ride. Tomorrow my crooked elbows will be bent out of shape by arthritis and they'll be up to my armpits and studying in college and ignoring any advice I may give.


Oh, and the Systech OD has a 1n input cap you may want to socket and change up if you build that circuit. My Systech PCB is waiting for its turn, as are so many circuits, and I just noticed the puny input.
Click to expand...

I do have they Systech OD PCB in my pile, thanks for the advice - I'll give that a shot when I build it up. I think I was just having a "woke up on the wrong side of the bed" kind of day here :)
 
peccary said:
Alright, that's some positive news. Thanks! A lot of the various versions of this pedal kind of had a buzzsaw sound and I assumed that was the S.H.E. but maybe they had some dirt in the path as well.
Click to expand...
Bit of a thread resurrection, but I build the Harmonic Energizer a month or so ago. Maybe I'll go a build report (I've been meaning to do a ton of them). I built the pedal with no expectations. I saw a few demos, but had heard no actually examples in action. I too was expecting a bit more drive out of it. While it is there, its a bit rough. However, this pedal run into a fuzz or distortion is a completely different story. Its more of a filter than anything. This pedal into my DLS, and I can nail the Money for Nothing tone. I love the color (or colour) this pedal brings. Great pedal. I'm starting the OD tomorrow...
 
Coda said:
Bit of a thread resurrection, but I build the Harmonic Energizer a month or so ago. Maybe I'll go a build report (I've been meaning to do a ton of them). I built the pedal with no expectations. I saw a few demos, but had heard no actually examples in action. I too was expecting a bit more drive out of it. While it is there, its a bit rough. However, this pedal run into a fuzz or distortion is a completely different story. Its more of a filter than anything. This pedal into my DLS, and I can nail the Money for Nothing tone. I love the color (or colour) this pedal brings. Great pedal. I'm starting the OD tomorrow...
Click to expand...

I'd kind of forgotten about this pedal, but now that you mention that it plays well with fuzz and distortion I will have t break it out again and experiment a bit with it. Thanks for the thread dredge!

I have the OD board but probably won't get to it in a while, I'd be glad to hear your impressions when it's done.
 
Energiser and OD in one box; yay or nay? Any point in having an order switcher included?
I've got both Madbean's Karate Chop and Runtime Error, respectively.

Dual Systech combo-pedal would be a good idea, or better paired with others?
 
Feral Feline said:
Energiser and OD in one box; yay or nay? Any point in having an order switcher included?
I've got both Madbean's Karate Chop and Runtime Error, respectively.

Dual Systech combo-pedal would be a good idea, or better paired with others?
Click to expand...
I’ve not completed the build yet, but I think the OD IS the energizer and a fuzz/distortion…
 
Comparing the MadBean schematics, I don't think so. Energiser has four op-amps, whereas the OD only has two.
Madbeans Karate Shop Energiser is 1590B, but the Runtime Error OD is squeezed into a 1590A format.
If the OD was the Energiser and a fuzz/distortion, I don't think it'd fit 1590A.
I think there's enough circuit deviations between the two in topology and component values that I wouldn't consider them similar.
Mind, I'm no CDB when it comes to circuit knowledge! 😹



Great, now I need to get another Runtime Error for a 1590A build, 'cause now I'm gonna use the one I have already for that duallie build — should fit 1590BB. 😼
 
Feral Feline said:
Comparing the MadBean schematics, I don't think so. Energiser has four op-amps, whereas the OD only has two.
Madbeans Karate Shop Energiser is 1590B, but the Runtime Error OD is squeezed into a 1590A format.
If the OD was the Energiser and a fuzz/distortion, I don't think it'd fit 1590A.
I think there's enough circuit deviations between the two in topology and component values that I wouldn't consider them similar.
Mind, I'm no CDB when it comes to circuit knowledge! 😹



Great, now I need to get another Runtime Error for a 1590A build, 'cause now I'm gonna use the one I have already for that duallie build — should fit 1590BB. 😼
Click to expand...
I only recall 2 IC’s when I built the PedalPCB version. I’m not saying that the OD is definitely a 2-in-1…but I imagine it’s a simile concept. I’ll let you know on Sunday, after I finish by build (unless my Tayda order doesn’t show up by then. That’s what I get for selecting Pony Express for shipping)…
 
Right, 2-in-1 in feel/vibe sonically. 🔊

Looking forward to Sunday!! Get the courier to whip those ponies! No, that's cruel — lots of carrots, but not too many carrots, they'll want a nap if they feed too much. 🥕🏇


I've downloaded the PedalPCB docs for the two circuits, to compare with Madbean's.

The difference between the Karate Shop and the Zapper is that the former has a JFET buffer on the input whereas Mr PedalPCB chose an op-amp buffer from a dual op-amp IC, the other op-amp in the power section (something I've never understood, need to ask CDB about it).

Both the MB and PPCB circuits resembling the Systech OD use a JFET buffer on input — in fact, the two ODs are identical siamese-twins save for a difference in power filtering and method of polarity protection (Madbean also has a 100Ω resistor on the power input).

I hadn't even looked at the PPCB Energiser before because I already had the MB version, but now having seen it... I like the op-amp buffer of the PPCB Energiser, so I may have to try that out too (exactly why I avoided it before) — shoot-out at the Systech Coral. I prefer the compactness of the MB OD, though.


Right, off to the Boneyard to ask about op-amps in power-sections...
 
Feral Feline said:
Right, 2-in-1 in feel/vibe sonically. 🔊

Looking forward to Sunday!! Get the courier to whip those ponies! No, that's cruel — lots of carrots, but not too many carrots, they'll want a nap if they feed too much. 🥕🏇


I've downloaded the PedalPCB docs for the two circuits, to compare with Madbean's.

The difference between the Karate Shop and the Zapper is that the former has a JFET buffer on the input whereas Mr PedalPCB chose an op-amp buffer from a dual op-amp IC, the other op-amp in the power section (something I've never understood, need to ask CDB about it).

Both the MB and PPCB circuits resembling the Systech OD use a JFET buffer on input — in fact, the two ODs are identical siamese-twins save for a difference in power filtering and method of polarity protection (Madbean also has a 100Ω resistor on the power input).

I hadn't even looked at the PPCB Energiser before because I already had the MB version, but now having seen it... I like the op-amp buffer of the PPCB Energiser, so I may have to try that out too (exactly why I avoided it before) — shoot-out at the Systech Coral. I prefer the compactness of the MB OD, though.


Right, off to the Boneyard to ask about op-amps in power-sections...
Click to expand...
I just finished the OD. I’ll do a full build thread, but a few quick notes: this thing is loud. Unity is at 9 o’clock. Secondly, the way the filter works on this compared to the HE is more like a traditional eq: bassiner one way, trebleyier the other. However, it’s more of an adjustment of the eq of the filter, and not the eq of the signal. The filter sweep is the same (my left ear hurts from where it was facing the speaker during initial testing), but the filter still a bit different. I think that the HE is a filter, where as the OD is a fuzz with the filter…the filter is an accent, not the main course…if that makes sense. It’s also not an OD. It’s a fuzz. It’s actually a nice fuzz tone. It’s plenty buzzy and sustainy. It sounds to me like an artificial 60’s fuzz tone. It’s good, but there’s something cold about it…in a good way.
 
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