Amp In A Box pedals

[Mike McLane]

PPCB has a several AIAB pedals. In my case I'm looking at the Acetylene & Pop Top Boost, both Vox "emulators". I'm just curious as to how a designer can accurately emulate the sound of an amp when they don't know what amp their pedal is going to be put into. The amp has its own design and tone stack and you would think pairing the two would wind up producing a sound that's a hybrid. I'd love to get a Voxy sound out of my Deluxe Reverb on occasion and wonder how effective these types of pedals are or whether a good EQ pedal could accomplish the same thing.

 

[ICTRock]

You've hit on the central disappointment of amp in a box pedals. They don't necessarily work well with all the amps that may be in your stable. I hold the opinion that if you have something reasonably close to the classic Fender tone stack and gain structure then an amp in a box pedal is generally going to work out better than if you have something completely different in terms of tone and gain structure.

 

[daeg]

Finally, some people who get it.

There are so many problems with the Amp-in-a-box approach.

1. A huge part of many of these amps signature sounds are their speakers.
   1. Without taking impulse responses of your current speaker and desired speaker, and a very complex EQ adjustment that can make the difference, there is no way to get from point A to point B.
2. People confuse 'sounds like' and 'sounds good with'.
   1. A Tubescreamer doesn't sound like a scooped Fender, a Rat sounds nothing like a Vox, and a Fuzz Face would never be mistaken with a clean Marshall, but these pairings are iconic.
   2. Pedals that compliment amps well tend to be ones that fill in or smooth out the amps frequency response, not double-up on its idiosyncrasies.
3. No one can tell one 'tube emulation technology' from another.
   1. Lovepedal made a dozen variations of the Electra and said they all sounded like different historic amplifiers.
   2. Catalinbread did the same thing with a 2-stage Mu-Amp
   3. Tech21 did the same thing with a unique OpAmp and Zener diode clipper circuit
   4. BJFE did the same thing with a modified Rat circuit
   5. RunOffGroove did the same thing with cascading JFets
   6. Korg tried to do something similar with a cheap display tube that functioned like a triode
   7. Now you'd think that by now we would have figured out which one of these approaches sounds like a vacuum tube, but go onto any Forum or Youtube comments section and you'll find legions of people saying each one sounds exactly like their favorite amplifier or nothing like their favorite amplifier.
   8. People will swear that a 5 resistors and a BJT transistor circuit sounds exactly like their 1959 Tweed Deluxe 5E3 amp.
4. The real takeaway is that we humans are very suggestible and easily convinced by colorful language.
   1. Go watch any PGS Andy demos of the products listed above. He'll convince the audience a 50 cent headphone amplifier put into a stompbox with the gain dimed gives you "a truckload of creamy harmonics and the sizzling grind found in the power amp section of a 120 watt Sun Model T coming out a 4x12 speaker cabinet" and the audience eats it up.

 

[daeg]

So with all of that said; my new approach is to:

• Enjoy the tube amp when it's right in front of me.
• Use a impulse response pedal when it isn't.
• Enjoy simple drive circuits that are known to pair well with my chosen amp.
• Stop obsessing over the component type and circuit topology.
• Halt when I catch myself thinking the grass is greener on the other side.

 

[Mike McLane]

For me the Deluxe Reverb works VERY well for everything I do and makes a great pedal platform. If needed I can get a great "Marshall" sound from my Angry Andy because I don't care if it doesn't sound exactly like a Marshall. The "vibe" is there. I'd like to get that Voxy vibe and was considering the two units mentioned and it just got me thinking about the whole AIAB thing. Anybody had any experience with the Pop Top or Acetylene?

 

[ICTRock]

The acetylene is excellent and versatile. While I stated my opinion about aiab pedals, it doesn't mean I don't build them and enjoy them.

 

[Bucksears]

For me, it's been hit & miss.
I've never had any Menatone stuff sound good through my Fender amps, and it's been hit/miss with Catalinbread's stuff, but I have gotten amazing/satisfying results with these through my Super Reverb head & 212 cab:

• Wampler PlexiDrive & CrankedAC
• Ed Guidry's BSIAB II
• Most (if not all) of Electrictabs' emus (Dr. Boogey, Boogeyman, Blues Killer and Blues Chief)
• Carl Martin's AC-Tone & PlexiTone (big box versions)

I take them with a healthy dose of 'inspired by' instead of looking for a full-on replication.

SIDE NOTE: With Fenders, don't rule out using British-type speakers. It's been my experience that you'll need Celestions (or workalikes), or just speakers with more mids. I had WGS' Retro 30 & ET-65 paired in my Super Reverb cab and it really brought the 'kerrang' with the CM PlexiTone. Not sure why I didn't keep those in there, but would go with a pair of Retro 30's next time. Yeah, it won't sound as scooped/Fender-y when clean, but the compromise might be worth it.

 

[Mike McLane]

I actually have a faithful DR clone with a WGS ET65. Thought about a trying a Celestion (either Green or Cream), but all the feedback I've gotten from folks I trust say the WGS is right in that ballpark. Nothing much to be gained from a switch.

 

[mdc]

Isn't the idea of most amp-in-a-box pedals that they're designed to emulate a specific preamp and/or tone stack, and meant to run in lieu of an amp's preamp? ie, either directly into a cabsib/DAW or into the return of an FX loop?

 

[MichaelW]

1. People confuse 'sounds like' and 'sounds good with'

THIS!

There's a lot of great sounds to be had with pedals. The insistence that AIAB pedals should "sound just like a _____" is something that eludes me. Just take it for what it is, tweak a good sound out of it for a track or a part and rely on your hands to get the rest of the "tonal authenticity". I really like my Son of Ben pedal, I dunno if it sounds like a Chimera or not, but to me it hints at and implies some Tweed Deluxe to Brownface tones. Sounds awesome. I've just been using the same baseline clean 6L6 amp model in my UAD Apollo. I'll pick different cab IR's depending on what sound I'm trying to get or whether its hum buckers or single coils.

Or I'll use my Revv D20 which is totally boring character-less clean pedal platform. (Ok, what wasn't so charitable.....it's actually a pretty decent standalone amp I can dial in a scooped Blackface tone or set everything to noon and have a clean canvas that I can sculpt the tone in software via IR's, or power amp models (or more recently pedals.

Having said that, I just fart around in my home studio and don't play live. It's a whole 'nuther ball of wax keeping up with a drummer and cutting through the mix. If I were a gigging guitar player I'd be playing a Dr. Z Maz 18 NR with a handful of pedals.

 

[Raspymcnasty]

At+ sounds marshally
Brown betty (sounds like brown sound)
Benson pre sounds voxy (as far as big 4 goes)
Viceroy boneyard (sounds orangy)

All played through a Deluxe and Princeton.

Obviously this is all just my opinion and imo your playing will outshine any tone you are going for.

 

[joelorigo]

For me the Deluxe Reverb works VERY well for everything I do and makes a great pedal platform. If needed I can get a great "Marshall" sound from my Angry Andy because I don't care if it doesn't sound exactly like a Marshall. The "vibe" is there. I'd like to get that Voxy vibe and was considering the two units mentioned and it just got me thinking about the whole AIAB thing. Anybody had any experience with the Pop Top or Acetylene?

I built the PopTop. It sounds Vox-ish from my Fender amps, which is what I expected and what I wanted at the time. My picky brother-in-law was impressed too