A simple Relay Bypass
- Thread starter Chuck D. Bones
- Start date
Chuck D. Bones
Circuit Wizard
No worries, you get credit for being on-topic and not posting any memes.
Here is one such example.
PedalPCB has a latching relay bypass board that uses an NE555 (instead of a microcontroller) to maintain state and react to momentary switch presses. I think the NE555 could be replaced with a couple inverters (e.g. cd40106 or 74hc14) with a circuit like this. I have breadboarded this, and it certainly works for toggling between two states with a momentary switch. The advantage is dramatically reduced power consumption (the disadvantage is a physically larger chip).
With the single-coil latching relay, you need the ability to produce a bi-directional current pulses (pulse one way for set, pulse the other for reset). That is easily done with two pins of a microcontroller (that have the appropriate current sourcing/sinking capability and builtin protection from coil flyback). The way it's done with the PedalPCB bypass is to use a capacitor in series with the relay coil. While DC won't pass through the capacitor, there will be a current pulse generated by it being charged or discharged depending on which transistor is open (either the PNP to ground or the NPN to VCC).
My question: assume that Q2's collector is attached to the relay coil's design voltage (5v in the case of the TQ2-L-5V, which also happens to be a good supply voltage for inverter ICs). Could we then remove the series capacitor C3, and replace R4 with a series capacitor (i.e. in series with the base of Q1)? And additionally add a resistor to ground between transistor gate and the series capacitor. The goals being (1) to activate the relay coil with it's design voltage, instead of the approximately-correct voltage from the cap charge/discharge current, and (2) get away with a smaller capacitor (hopefully small enough to use film or ceramic) since we only need to drive the transistor base?
I have bread-boarded something conceptually similar, though I'm using a two coil latching relay, and MOSFETs instead of BJTs - but the main idea from my question is the same: using a series capacitors to generate a pulse for the FET gates (and the FETS do the "heavy lifting" of current sinking). It works as expected on the breadboard. Assuming this isn't a flawed design for some reasons that I'm unaware of, for simple on/off relay bypass, it has a lot of advantages: micro-amp current consumption (except when switching of course), simple circuit, uses cheap, commodity, current-production components. Schematic attached.
Attachments
Chuck D. Bones
Circuit Wizard
You might want to try a CD4013 type D flip-flop. Saves some parts. But at about a buck each and free firmware, a μC is hard to beat.
We used latching relays a LOT in spacecraft because the coil current is zero 99.9% of the time and they remember their state when the power is off. 4PDT relays were a favorite because one set of contacts could be dedicated to feedback to the controller.
One more thing... you don't have to run the 40106 or 4013 from regulated +5V. They work fine on +9V. You don't need to run the relay off of regulated voltage either.
We used latching relays a LOT in spacecraft because the coil current is zero 99.9% of the time and they remember their state when the power is off. 4PDT relays were a favorite because one set of contacts could be dedicated to feedback to the controller.
One more thing... you don't have to run the 40106 or 4013 from regulated +5V. They work fine on +9V. You don't need to run the relay off of regulated voltage either.
szukalski
Well-known member
For anyone following this relay, I uploaded the v2.1 of my layout:
github.com
It's the same as v2.0 but with a smaller footprint, less height.
I have a v3.0 drawn up which lets you choose to use the LED of the main board or the relay, but it's not smaller than this one.
GitHub - szukalski/pedal-simple-relay
Contribute to szukalski/pedal-simple-relay development by creating an account on GitHub.
github.com
It's the same as v2.0 but with a smaller footprint, less height.
I have a v3.0 drawn up which lets you choose to use the LED of the main board or the relay, but it's not smaller than this one.
drgonzo1969
Well-known member
Is the SPST momentary?For anyone following this relay, I uploaded the v2.1 of my layout:
GitHub - szukalski/pedal-simple-relay
Contribute to szukalski/pedal-simple-relay development by creating an account on GitHub.
It's the same as v2.0 but with a smaller footprint, less height.
I have a v3.0 drawn up which lets you choose to use the LED of the main board or the relay, but it's not smaller than this one.
szukalski
Well-known member
Yes. You can use any mechanism to make a complete circuit.
Chuck D. Bones
Circuit Wizard
Stomp switch should be normally open.
Hi, could you please help with the attributes of U1(when using FTR-B4CA) on relay-v2.1-cpl.csv? Is the rotation =269.99 correct? Seems like it should be 180 based on visual inspection on JLCPCB.For anyone following this relay, I uploaded the v2.1 of my layout:
GitHub - szukalski/pedal-simple-relay
Contribute to szukalski/pedal-simple-relay development by creating an account on GitHub.
It's the same as v2.0 but with a smaller footprint, less height.
I have a v3.0 drawn up which lets you choose to use the LED of the main board or the relay, but it's not smaller than this one.
My recent Paragon build has LED pop and after all the usual trials ( LED change, Tantalum output caps, AMZ method etc) I was wondering if using Relay Bypass would eliminate/reduce it as removing the LED makes the switching dead silent.
Chuck D. Bones
Circuit Wizard
LED pop could be caused by grounding issues. The relay bypass might fix it, but without understanding why the LED pops, there is no guarantee. Maybe you want to post something in the Troubleshooting forum.
szukalski
Well-known member
I’d just remove U1 from the BoM and not worry about the rotation. It’s something you’d solder yourself.
Thanks. Sorry to hijack this thread. I posted in the Troubleshooting forum.
Normally I would prefer to do exactly that but its just that I only have access to FTR-B4CA via Mouser and that's like $4 to $5 whereas if procured from LCSC via JLCPCB assembly, it's like $1. I was thinking of getting 10 to 15 done.
Also, it appears that a slightly cheaper alternative EC2-4.5NU can b used in your circuit but the footprint seems to be different. Anyway, I will try it on a vero and see if the relay switch would actually help in my case.
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