Are boutique pedals over?
- Thread starter giovanni
- Start date
Mentaltossflycoon
Well-known member
And as we all know, no gutshots no glory.
giovanni
Well-known member
I know many people don’t like Josh and they have their good reasons but I think he is making some good points:
Edit: does Josh have his own agenda and stuff? Probably, but he is a business man after all and this is the USA which, for better or worse, is the birthplace of capitalism.
- making these pedals more accessible for musicians is overall a good thing
- the designers are getting a royalty which is great for them
- there is nothing wrong with SMD and, dare I say, mass produced electronics if there is a company behind to do customer service (I’ve dealt with MXR service and they have been great)
- collaboration is good
Edit: does Josh have his own agenda and stuff? Probably, but he is a business man after all and this is the USA which, for better or worse, is the birthplace of capitalism.
Alan W
Well-known member
Its also interesting to think about the guitar "world" as a whole. The rise of "Custom Shops," relics, not to mention the growth of "Boutique manufacturers" in the instruments and amps. I'm not familiar enough with, say, reed instruments, to know how much of that "Made in small quantities, just for a discerning musician" other musicians expect. Certainly, in the automotive world there are the "Tuners" who will make you BMW or Mercedes into something "special."
Pedals are basically simple, and relatively inexpensive for the most part, so I can't see a market for "made just for a special person like me" drying up soon. The dividing line between what "hand made" means—is a hand carved chair necessarily better than one that's been carefully designed to spec, machined, and had hands on it for finishing—what parts do the "hands on" process make special? When I think about early Zvex, to me it was more about the hand painted enclosures that anything else. But how important is how the components are joined together? (And I ask this as someone who uses silver bearing solder, 6-9 solid copper wire w/teflon, etc.)—I will never argue that the component quality isn't very important. (But I would argue that SMT does have many advantages over through hole, just like, for a more complicated circuit, I'd go for a PCB over vero or dead bug, (even though the latter is dear to my heart.))
I think a lot of it just goes down to a desire to own objects that are not fully mass produced. And as a craftsperson, who earned his living with his hands, I can't argue against that.
Pedals are basically simple, and relatively inexpensive for the most part, so I can't see a market for "made just for a special person like me" drying up soon. The dividing line between what "hand made" means—is a hand carved chair necessarily better than one that's been carefully designed to spec, machined, and had hands on it for finishing—what parts do the "hands on" process make special? When I think about early Zvex, to me it was more about the hand painted enclosures that anything else. But how important is how the components are joined together? (And I ask this as someone who uses silver bearing solder, 6-9 solid copper wire w/teflon, etc.)—I will never argue that the component quality isn't very important. (But I would argue that SMT does have many advantages over through hole, just like, for a more complicated circuit, I'd go for a PCB over vero or dead bug, (even though the latter is dear to my heart.))
I think a lot of it just goes down to a desire to own objects that are not fully mass produced. And as a craftsperson, who earned his living with his hands, I can't argue against that.
Harry Klippton
Not Interested
Boutique is irrelevant. The real question is will other people be impressed when I tell them I own one?
Bricksnbeatles
Member known well
If you’re talking about a talkbox, the answer is a resounding yes
cwsquared
Well-known member
I have a talkbox and I doubt anyone cares.If you’re talking about a talkbox, the answer is a resounding yes
Harry Klippton
Not Interested
Which one do you have?
cwsquared
Well-known member
giovanni
Well-known member
Ha, you got me there!
giovanni
Well-known member
Thanks for the replies folks, I find these discussions interesting and I think you make really good points. I intentionally made the thread title a bit of a click bait, I am not really convinced it’s even a question that makes sense: things keep changing. Before the invention of recorded music, a lot more people could read music, but that doesn’t mean music literacy died when the change happened. There are many other examples. I totally agree that there will always be people who value having handcrafted and unique gear (guilty of buying a custom made guitar!). I am also happy to discover new true boutique builders all the time, I think the creativity that’s out there is inspiring!
szukalski
Well-known member
I think there will always be a boutique market, but I see it split into three business models (with overlap).
1: Focused on the audio result. Quality builds of prior designs, sometimes specialised with NOS components or with minor changes. Making a great sounding pedal. Hard to scale because it needs a skilled builder. A number of people on the forum would fit here.
2: Focused on a product. Making a pretty looking enclosure, with marketing and hype. Not reinventing the wheel, but aimed at making an effective financial model. Typically have a portfolio of YaTS, YaBB, YaRat, YaFF, YaMuff. Maybe scale with off-country manufacturing without sacrificing quality.
3: Focused on new designs. The tinkerers and creators, not just rehashing existing designs. The true builders and creators. If they are successful then they sometimes move towards a product model.
Use of SMD is irrelevant, if the sound is the same as through-hole then who cares? Nobody is complaining that "boutique" is not built on etched PCBs..
1: Focused on the audio result. Quality builds of prior designs, sometimes specialised with NOS components or with minor changes. Making a great sounding pedal. Hard to scale because it needs a skilled builder. A number of people on the forum would fit here.
2: Focused on a product. Making a pretty looking enclosure, with marketing and hype. Not reinventing the wheel, but aimed at making an effective financial model. Typically have a portfolio of YaTS, YaBB, YaRat, YaFF, YaMuff. Maybe scale with off-country manufacturing without sacrificing quality.
3: Focused on new designs. The tinkerers and creators, not just rehashing existing designs. The true builders and creators. If they are successful then they sometimes move towards a product model.
Use of SMD is irrelevant, if the sound is the same as through-hole then who cares? Nobody is complaining that "boutique" is not built on etched PCBs..
szukalski
Well-known member
Spot on. Though I would prefer more focus on creating something new rather than more time on marketing. Focus on what differentiates your business instead of doing the heavy lifting (of the soldering iron).
"Are boutique pedals over?" Maybe the question should be "Are we over boutique pedals?" I don't really know what constitutes boutique any more anyway. It used to be anything not made by faceless corporations like Boss, MXR and EHX. Now? When Boss is collaborating with whoever it is who made the Tonebender? When a Timmy is made by MXR? I just don't know. Who are the good guys? Who are the bad guys? Is there a santa?
We should have stuck to coloured hats dammit. Then I would know: black hat = bad guy. White hat = good guy. But what do I know? I'm hat colour-fluid.
We should have stuck to coloured hats dammit. Then I would know: black hat = bad guy. White hat = good guy. But what do I know? I'm hat colour-fluid.
chongmagic
Well-known member
They were good for siphoning gas out of automobiles.
jesuscrisp
Well-known member
I feel like it IS relevant in a way. It massively cuts down the time put into the product and thus should cost significantly less. Yet there are builders who put out SMD 10-component fuzzes and other stupidly simple circuits for up to 300-ish [insert your Western currency here] or more.
Or even JHS putting out the legends of fuzz series or a DOD250 clone with a clipping switch for 180$.
I am perfectly willing to pay boutique money for SMD pedals, but not for Mooer-level clones with an extra switch, not even if it has a fancy no-click footswitch.
giovanni
Well-known member
Josh Scott himself admitted that people kept asking him to come up with “new stuff” but then he makes a 9 TS in one pedal and it’s his greatest hit. The market is really weird. And I don’t mean that limited to pedals. And these guys have employees to pay so I don’t feel like blaming them for giving people what they want even if it’s just the same old crap… I don’t know that I would do anything different in his shoes?
