I need a good first tube project
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joelorigo
Well-known member
I stated above that this did cross my mind. I went to https://www.amplifiedparts.com and used the Mojotone 5F1 instruction manual to put all the parts in a cart. There's variables of the fact that this is the first time I've ever done this so I don't know the exact part to choose when there are multiple choices, and they didn't have an eyelet board, and I didn't spend time on screws and keep nuts. Also, it could be possible I chose higher quality/more expensive parts that what Mojotone supplies, I wouldn't know at this point since I've never built an amp before. But, the cart total is $342 and Mojotone charges $395 for the kit. Both would have free shipping. So $50 is $50, but the price difference is not as much as I would have thought.
Sorry to the OP that this thread got a bit hijacked, but I can say the Madbean Tube Driver was my first tube pedal, and I do like it. I was pretty anxious and proceeded methodically so it would work right the first time and wouldn't need any troubleshooting
TheHammer1982
Well-known member
I'm still trying to decide what to build for my first DIY amp as there are quite a few solid choices to pick from. Something that I quickly realized is that most of the time building your own will NOT be cheaper than buying something ready to go so saving money shouldn't be the driving factor.
RetiredUnit1
Well-known member
I do this as a hobby, and for a while a business. I got a business license, which was *very* cheap, opened an account with CE Dist and I buy in bulk at whatever quantity/price break makes the most sense. Usually you'll see if you order, for example, 100 of something the price per unit is a lot less than 10. But between 100 and 250 not as good a reduction, so I get 100.
I have all the pots, fuses, wires, switches, and everything else except chassis and transformers. It saves a lot over a retail kit. I have a large tote full of capacitors, and another full of resisters. They're quite heavy....
My $0.02. As someone who started on tube amps like 30yrs ago, and even run my own business. Back from a day when there weren’t many kit options out there etc…. Let me recommend, for your first build- buy a kit. (Even for someone with my experience, even today, kits are often desired over sourcing parts individually- especially since I no longer have my reseller accounts with people like Mojo and NewSensor etc). And with a kit, all of the pain in the rear things are done (like chassis cutout etc). The cost saving sourcing individual components isn’t worth the aggravation (and truth be told, can sometimes even cost more.
My recommendation is either a tweed champ or tweed deluxe.
yes the champ is smaller, but the smaller chassis also adds complexity of trying to fit a lot of parts into a small area, and the deluxe circuit isn’t a whole lot more complex, but you have more room to work.
That said: Weber’s kits are the most economical choice, but there are no instructions, just a schematic and layout- so if you’ve never done it, is a bit more challenging (although the others have their instructions online so you can always copy theirs hint hint). They also have a long lead time as the cabinets are made to order. They also have some components that need upgrade (such as the jacks are terrible)
Mojotone- has better quality components, have kits in stock (be careful you have to buy kit+ cab + speaker separately), and are a little more than Weber but slightly less than StewMac. Instructions are decent, and they generally follow a better grounding scheme than StewMac
StewMac are slightly more than Mojo, and ironically they ARE mojo kits rebranded!! But with StewMac you get better instructions (still recommend mojos grounding scheme), cabinet and speaker are included, and they are ready to ship. Also StewMac often has member sales (I’m a StewMax member), where they give you 20% off, free shipping etc ( the stew max membership pays for itself with a kit alone).
Again, I recommend the tweed deluxe over the champ for the size/space thing. But if you do the champ, in addition to the book, they did a series of YouTube videos where they built one. So you could build along with that.
Strongly recommend against the more complex amps like the black panel deluxe and Princeton as a first build as the reverb and trem and overall complexity add some challenges with lead dress and grounding that could discourage a first timer from doing more builds.
My recommendation is either a tweed champ or tweed deluxe.
yes the champ is smaller, but the smaller chassis also adds complexity of trying to fit a lot of parts into a small area, and the deluxe circuit isn’t a whole lot more complex, but you have more room to work.
That said: Weber’s kits are the most economical choice, but there are no instructions, just a schematic and layout- so if you’ve never done it, is a bit more challenging (although the others have their instructions online so you can always copy theirs hint hint). They also have a long lead time as the cabinets are made to order. They also have some components that need upgrade (such as the jacks are terrible)
Mojotone- has better quality components, have kits in stock (be careful you have to buy kit+ cab + speaker separately), and are a little more than Weber but slightly less than StewMac. Instructions are decent, and they generally follow a better grounding scheme than StewMac
StewMac are slightly more than Mojo, and ironically they ARE mojo kits rebranded!! But with StewMac you get better instructions (still recommend mojos grounding scheme), cabinet and speaker are included, and they are ready to ship. Also StewMac often has member sales (I’m a StewMax member), where they give you 20% off, free shipping etc ( the stew max membership pays for itself with a kit alone).
Again, I recommend the tweed deluxe over the champ for the size/space thing. But if you do the champ, in addition to the book, they did a series of YouTube videos where they built one. So you could build along with that.
Strongly recommend against the more complex amps like the black panel deluxe and Princeton as a first build as the reverb and trem and overall complexity add some challenges with lead dress and grounding that could discourage a first timer from doing more builds.
RetiredUnit1
Well-known member
I know that when I'm putting together the parts, I use the best ones I can find. Many times kits have components I just won't use, like 1/4w carbon comp resistors instead of 1w carbon film. Rob Robinette, a navy trained tube EE, said the closer a resistor's rating is to the current the more noise is produced.
And the question was 'how can I save money over a kit', so I didn't even think about mentioning a kit as an option!
I’m also a huge fan of avoiding carbon comps. I’ve done double-blind tests in amps using carbon comps and metal films (I actually took the time to match the values so as to take tolerances out of the equation). And I never saw any results that were any more definitive than if someone flipped a coin for their answer. Some of the more “honest” testers admitted they couldn’t hear a difference.
And new, you won’t. Now let them age a few decades and if the noise difference doesn’t give it away, the tonal differences will show as carbon comps are grossly out of spec.
RetiredUnit1
Well-known member
And they’re prone to cracking in half and complete failure!
joelorigo
Well-known member
Let's say you were going to build the Mojotone 5E3, which according to the instructions comes with carbon composite resistors, would you chuck those and use the same wattage and value metal films?
owlexifry
Well-known member
this is exactly why i recommend the 5F2-A over the 5F1. a 5F1 build just seems like a bad time and a worse amp.
my first ever build was 2204 JCM800 with a stewmac kit. this was before i had ever even thought about building a pedal circuit, and i had absolutely no clue what i was doing. i just followed the layout/instructions. somehow this amp was a great success.
i chose stewmac because with a membership because i was able to save hundreds of dollarydoos for shipping a stupidly heavy kit to bumfuck downunder, and the best part was they offered technical support, which was invaluable for the clueless fuckwit that i was back then.
but if i lived in US, holy crap, the options. i'd probably go with amplified parts or something like that and then just nick a pdf assembly manual/layout from stewmac/mojotone or whoever
I’ve built with the carbon comps as they were there, but I also know I’ll eventually change them out with the first cap job or sooner. They are fine for tweaking and modding then when you get what you like replace with metal films (or even carbon films if you are cheap). Thing to remember is carbon comps are physically larger than metal films of the same wattage, so I’d use 1w metal films instead of the 1/2w carbon comps as they would be the same size and bigger is always better (also in some cases, you need the longer lead length for the board)
RetiredUnit1
Well-known member
Just butting in, on old Marshalls you see only carbon film in the signals, and they are one watt. They do use metal film, the red iskra's, in some non signal positions. I've made over 20 5e3's and use only 1w CF in the 1/4w positions. Dumble's are also all carbon film....
I have a mojo kit for the 18w that I bought when someone wanted me to build one for them, and then wrecked his car and ran out of funds. It has carbon comp, which I thought was odd, but I've already thrown those away and taken carbon films out of my stock and put it into the kit. I've also replaced all the mojo dijons with real phillips mustard caps, since I have about 20 pounds of those... Gonna build it some day.
Carbon film are fine. I have no problem with them (also easier to read the color code for me, since I’ve used the 4 band forever, the 5 band throws me).
I believe DrZ also uses carbon film.
I don’t know of any kits that use carbon films though all seem to either be carbon comp or metal film.
RetiredUnit1
Well-known member
Metroamp kits were exact repro's of the original vintages marshalls all the way. Valvestorm is handing that side of the business now 'cus George is tooooooooo busy raking in buck$ on his amps! Check out the BOM on the PDF link. It's the complete instructions for a 100w.
I ordered a 2203 chassis and faceplates just a week ago. Still waiting for Robert of Valvestorm to ship it tho. Ordered the iron last year.
Since my wife passed away in '21 I barely manage to eek out about 2 hours a week for amp work. Big house, lots of cats and dogs, and I'm partially disabled with arthritis.
RetiredUnit1
Well-known member
Hey, speaking about the chassis and faceplates I ordered a week ago, THEY'RE HERE!!!! Woo Hoo, now that's what I call one BIG ASS chassis!!!! Gotta admit, 6 x 50/50uf can caps, for a total of 12 capacitors for the power smoothing will be the most I've ever stuck on a chassis.
I have all phillips mustard caps for the signal path. The Greek economy *hit the fan* in the early 00's, and eBay sellers were dumping their caps on the market just to put food on the table. I bought 300 x 400v .022's and 300 x 600v .022 for about 30 cents each. Insane. I also bought hundreds of the other values for chicken feed. Still pinching myself 20 years later.......
Look like they are good quality!
Just wish I would have bought a few output transformers from OEI before he shut down. I haven’t heard an OT like theirs except in some original late 60s amps
RetiredUnit1
Well-known member
OEI?
I have Mercury Magnetics on the 1987 I built back in 2011 - schwing!!!!
These are some of the mustard caps I was talking about, they were made for PCB boards, and have the short leads. Since I make my own circuit boards I just drew up a layout especially for them!
Those definitely have the look of the old caps that Marshall and Traynor used back in the day. Rarely did one ever give up the ghost. Sadly the only reason most old amps don’t have them are due to the mods folks did in the 70s
TheHammer1982
Well-known member
Definitely start with something simple, or you could do what I did and jump into this cluster f*#@ as your very first project. I couldn't even read a schematic when I started on this lol.
RetiredUnit1
Well-known member
Hey I searched for OEI and found this. Apparently Heyboer made them and they can do a custom order...? I know that APD also has some custom spec'd heyboer iron
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