SOLVED Moonn Asteroid - 7 Transistor Fuzz War/DBA Armageddon - Assistance

[ColorMeBaddFann]

Any smart folks out there had success building the DBA Armageddon? I've been working on the Moonn Electronics Asteroid, which from the description is based upon the Armageddon (http://dirtboxlayouts.blogspot.com/2019/07/death-by-audio-armageddon.html) but still scratching my head on this one.

I've put together the v2 PCB with the recommended components from the build doc (https://www.dropbox.com/s/dyyin1ma8q527ug/Asteroid Doc.pdf?dl=0), but still only getting a very faint fuzz sound when both the loud and fuzz pots are dimed. Checked and double checked the offboard wiring as well as all other components, and it looks to be correct. Checked for any unintentional bridges and cleaned up flux from the board... nothing that i can see. But from my limited experience with fuzz circuits, this usually indicates something is up with the transistors. Then again, I'm still learning the basics so definitely could be wrong.

From what I've read about the 7 transistor Fuzz War/Armageddon circuit (I believe this is the basis of the Asteroid), the transistors can be a bit fiddly. I've gathered seven 2n5088's with hfe of 350 (within 1 or 2 hfe), and tried a few similar subs (2n5089, 2n3094) but no luck. I'm guessing there may be another issue, but hard to tell since it seems to be a somewhat uncommon build and not a whole lot of info out there.

The v1 Fuzz War threads here have been super helpful thus far. But not sure if the addition of the filters would deviate much from the Bellum MK1 concept. Any ideas on where I should go from here? Thanks!!

 

[Nic]

Is that switch clearing all the solder around it ?

 

[ColorMeBaddFann]

Is that switch clearing all the solder around it ?

Yea, I cleared around it. Those photos didn't have the best angle.

 

[ColorMeBaddFann]

Think I may have figured out whats causing the issue. The build doc does not provide any details on the 6 lugs labeled "filter" in the bottom right of the PCB... although it does list a 3PDT for it on the parts list.

I've yet to see this type of arrangement for a switch, so I'll need to play around with it for a bit. But my assumption is that it would be similar to the "Boost" footswitch for one of the other Moonn builds ("200 Sunny Sunns") as outlined below:


I jumpered eyelets 1 & 2, and 4 & 5 and suddenly the very faint fuzz was brought up to unity volume level and sounded pretty good. Hoping the above is correct for a filter sweep arrangement and not just a boost.

 

[ColorMeBaddFann]

Added the 3pdt and wired it up according to the diagram and we're up and running. Does seem like a pretty gnarly fuzz... can get spitty and very fizzy, but I suppose that's the v1 fuzz war circuit. Would have been nice if that part of the instructions had been included in the build doc, but oh well.

 

[bilisnegra13]

Added the 3pdt and wired it up according to the diagram and we're up and running. Does seem like a pretty gnarly fuzz... can get spitty and very fizzy, but I suppose that's the v1 fuzz war circuit. Would have been nice if that part of the instructions had been included in the build doc, but oh well.

Di you try to swap all the 470n caps for 680n as per in the original Armageddon? Curious if you compared your build to the videos in YouTube where Oliver show his pedalboard and use the Armageddon?

 

[ColorMeBaddFann]

No, I just went with the 470n and haven't swapped in the larger caps. Was pretty happy with the result I got, but I can see how something more wild might be fun. Hard to tell based on that one video with Oliver playing through the original since he had all of those other effects going at the same time. I've got a Bellum MK1 in my queue, so once that's complete I can compare it with the 680n caps vs the Asteroid.

The filters on the Asteroid are a cool addition and makes it sound way different than the v 1.5 Fuzz War I've got (4 transistor version, but with 2 knobs and the internal trimmer for the fuzz/gain).

 

[Graal]

Think I may have figured out whats causing the issue. The build doc does not provide any details on the 6 lugs labeled "filter" in the bottom right of the PCB... although it does list a 3PDT for it on the parts list.
View attachment 39633
I've yet to see this type of arrangement for a switch, so I'll need to play around with it for a bit. But my assumption is that it would be similar to the "Boost" footswitch for one of the other Moonn builds ("200 Sunny Sunns") as outlined below:
View attachment 39634

I jumpered eyelets 1 & 2, and 4 & 5 and suddenly the very faint fuzz was brought up to unity volume level and sounded pretty good. Hoping the above is correct for a filter sweep arrangement and not just a boost.

Hi! I had the same problem with my pedal. I connected all wires as the diagram shows and the volume is very low even with pot at max level.
Did you jumpered the filter eyelets as shown in the 200 sunny sunns diagram attached?
Is the filter switch working right after that?

Many thanks in advance!

 

[ColorMeBaddFann]

Hi! I had the same problem with my pedal. I connected all wires as the diagram shows and the volume is very low even with pot at max level.
Did you jumpered the filter eyelets as shown in the 200 sunny sunns diagram attached?
Is the filter switch working right after that?

Many thanks in advance!

I ended up wiring another 3pdt like the diagram of the boost section of the 200 Sunny Sunns board. FIlter works for me in that configuration.

 

[comradehoser]

Did anyone try contacting Nils?

He may not be super quick with his shipping, but he usually replies to emails in a reasonable time.

 

[ColorMeBaddFann]

Did anyone try contacting Nils?

He may not be super quick with his shipping, but he usually replies to emails in a reasonable time.

Yea, he responded a few months after I had already figured it out. No big deal. While a little disorganized, Nils is a super nice guy and the stuff he makes is a lot of fun to put together. This was also about 2 years ago, and from his IG posts it looks like he's got someone else helping him with orders so I'd wager things are more buttoned up now.

 

[Graal]

Did anyone try contacting Nils?

He may not be super quick with his shipping, but he usually replies to emails in a reasonable time.

Yes, I did. He was super kind to answer my question.
Basically Nils said:
"They do have kinda weird sweeps but a big volume difference shouldn't be the case
Maybe you have a bad solder point or mabe swapped a part or something like that?
I hope you can work it out because sadly there isn't so much I can do from the distance"

 

[Graal]

I built the Asteroid a couple of years ago and since I couldn't make it sound like I think the Armageddon should sound, I left it in the drawer until a couple of days ago when I read your posts.
At that time I connected the 3pdt as above but I will definitely try to jumper those eyelets (200 sunny diagram) since you have no problems with the filters.
I think I also have to deal with the biasing of some transistors.

 

[comradehoser]

I was asking more for the orthodoxy of the 6-pad 3pdt wiring

 

[ColorMeBaddFann]

I built the Asteroid a couple of years ago and since I couldn't make it sound like I think the Armageddon should sound, I left it in the drawer until a couple of days ago when I read your posts.
At that time I connected the 3pdt as above but I will definitely try to jumper those eyelets (200 sunny diagram) since you have no problems with the filters.
I think I also have to deal with the biasing of some transistors.

I just adjusted the trimmer to taste. What usually trips me up with these sort of builds is using sockets. Not sure if your build included them (I wanted to try different transistors in this case), but 90% of the time if the fuzz is too quiet or something seems off, it ends up being sockets not making a clean connection.

If I do use them in the build, it try to bend the ends of the leads a bit so they'll grip better in the socket. Sometimes that works, other times I just end up soldering the transistor in directly. Apologies if you've already tried this.

 

[EisengesisFX]

Hey @ColorMeBaddFann, I'm fixin to order this PCB from Nils in the next week or two. Grateful af for this thread! What enclosure did you go with for your build?

 

[ColorMeBaddFann]

Hey @ColorMeBaddFann, I'm fixin to order this PCB from Nils in the next week or two. Grateful af for this thread! What enclosure did you go with for your build?

Went with a 1590bb I had intended for something else... the copper hammer finish sounded like how I imagine an asteroid would look. It's been a few years but I don't recall having any trouble getting everything to fit. Maybe you could cram it into a 125b in a different orientation, but I'm definitely not neat enough with my offboard wiring to make that happen.