Harry Klippton
Not Interested
Oh also be forewarned that taking all the strings off at the same time and restringing it is a huge pain in the ass because of the bridge design
NGD! Electric 12 String....for TWICE the fun! 6-14-23 Demo Added
- Thread starter MichaelW
- Start date
MichaelW
Well-known member
Well I started in on this project today, it's turned into quite the project and I've only just got the pickups installed!
This guitar came with a pair of Artec pickups that are really oddball size. They're somewhere between a Filtertron and Dearmond but longer than both.
As you may recall, I originally got a set of $54 Filtertrons made by "BK Pickups" that are allegedly used in the Gretsch Electromatic series.
I've played these pickups and they're pretty decent.
But, sticking a pair of Gretsch style pickups with Gretsch rings in an otherwise Rick-ish styled guitar seemed odd. So I also ordered a set of GFS Dearmond sized humbuckers. According to the website these are supposed to sound like filtertrons but will fit a Dearmond footprint.
Well neither set worked on this guitar.........of course........
The GFS set are surface mount Dearmond style. And they don't cover the original holes or ring foot print.
Also, the neck pickup route is routed for a humbucker but the bridge is routed smaller for the goofy sized Artec pickup.
So in order to use the Filtertron set I'd have to do some routing to the bridge route. AND I would need to deepen both pickup routes to accommodate the taller Filtertrons.....
So next for giggles I tried slipping the GFS Dearmond pickups into the original rings that came with the guitar, they fit for the most part, and would of course go back into the original screw holes.
But they would be way too tall........sigh.....
So I decided to start with the option that involved the least amount of modifications to the body of the guitar. I didn't want to go too far routing the body to accept the trons then run into some other issue with no return.
I decided to modify the GFS Dearmond pickups from surface mount to pickup ring mount and use the original rings that came on the guitar.
The pickups were not soldered into the covers and were only glued in place with a dedicated lead soldered in place to complete the ground.
So they popped out pretty easily.
I needed to cut most of the flange for the surface mount of the covers off. I went to get my Dremel and had zero cut off wheels. They were all broken.....this was turning out great so far........
So I had to either order some from Amazon and wait, or go old school. Of course, I wasn't going to wait hahahaha.
Vice, some wood scraps and a good old hack saw.
Got to use my early fathers day present, my new disc/belt sander to clean up the edges and bull nose the part of the cover that would be my pickup adjustment/hanger screws.
I drilled and tapped for the pickup mounting screws,
And after a lot of sanding, filing, hacksawing.....they came out pretty good. The gaps should be less noticeable once installed.
Continued in next post.....
This guitar came with a pair of Artec pickups that are really oddball size. They're somewhere between a Filtertron and Dearmond but longer than both.
As you may recall, I originally got a set of $54 Filtertrons made by "BK Pickups" that are allegedly used in the Gretsch Electromatic series.
I've played these pickups and they're pretty decent.
But, sticking a pair of Gretsch style pickups with Gretsch rings in an otherwise Rick-ish styled guitar seemed odd. So I also ordered a set of GFS Dearmond sized humbuckers. According to the website these are supposed to sound like filtertrons but will fit a Dearmond footprint.
Well neither set worked on this guitar.........of course........
The GFS set are surface mount Dearmond style. And they don't cover the original holes or ring foot print.
Also, the neck pickup route is routed for a humbucker but the bridge is routed smaller for the goofy sized Artec pickup.
So in order to use the Filtertron set I'd have to do some routing to the bridge route. AND I would need to deepen both pickup routes to accommodate the taller Filtertrons.....
So next for giggles I tried slipping the GFS Dearmond pickups into the original rings that came with the guitar, they fit for the most part, and would of course go back into the original screw holes.
But they would be way too tall........sigh.....
So I decided to start with the option that involved the least amount of modifications to the body of the guitar. I didn't want to go too far routing the body to accept the trons then run into some other issue with no return.
I decided to modify the GFS Dearmond pickups from surface mount to pickup ring mount and use the original rings that came on the guitar.
The pickups were not soldered into the covers and were only glued in place with a dedicated lead soldered in place to complete the ground.
So they popped out pretty easily.
I needed to cut most of the flange for the surface mount of the covers off. I went to get my Dremel and had zero cut off wheels. They were all broken.....this was turning out great so far........
So I had to either order some from Amazon and wait, or go old school. Of course, I wasn't going to wait hahahaha.
Vice, some wood scraps and a good old hack saw.
Got to use my early fathers day present, my new disc/belt sander to clean up the edges and bull nose the part of the cover that would be my pickup adjustment/hanger screws.
I drilled and tapped for the pickup mounting screws,
And after a lot of sanding, filing, hacksawing.....they came out pretty good. The gaps should be less noticeable once installed.
Continued in next post.....
MichaelW
Well-known member
Well they still didn't completely fit without some minor modification to the pickup routes. I had to knock the "ear corners" off the route to make room for the new pickups. I did not want to take more off the pickup rings as they're thinner than a traditional pickup mounting leg and it would make them too weak. So back to the Dremel.
And......finally there we go!
I finished my can of MG Chemical nickel based conductive paint. I decided to try a different kind of MG paint. This one is more formulated for RF shielding which I think should work better.
I'm getting called to dinner, more to come........stay tuned
And......finally there we go!
I finished my can of MG Chemical nickel based conductive paint. I decided to try a different kind of MG paint. This one is more formulated for RF shielding which I think should work better.
I'm getting called to dinner, more to come........stay tuned
MichaelW
Well-known member
Well I started putting the wiring components together, CTS pots, Switchcraft toggle....and of course the pickguard route was sized for tiny pots.
It would not fit with the CTS pots.
So out came the Dremel again to make a little more room in the cavity. And then re-painting...
I like the original knobs that came on the guitar and wanted to re-use them, but they're sized for metric Asian pots.
So here's a hack that I've learned about to "re-spline" the knobs.
Take an old pot that you don't intend to use again. (Why I save all my crap and wind up with big bins of spare parts hahaha)
Find some way to hold it still, a vise is handy.
Heat the shaft with a heat gun, I get it real nice and hot (and this usually kills the pot incidentally)
Then when it's still good and hot, firmly push the knob onto the hot knurling until it seats. The hot metal will "re-form" the splines in the plastic pot. Once it cools, it looks like it came from the factory that way.
And voila, all 4 knobs ready for my imperial sized pots.
So, the pickups are in but I haven't started the rest of the wiring yet. With the black shielding paint the gap around the pickups don't catch your eye as much. Once the strings are on it will be even less noticeable.
This has been a bit of a pain in the arse. I'm NOT completely sure I didn't kill the pickups with my mods. I'll find out tomorrow....
The adventure continues......
It would not fit with the CTS pots.
So out came the Dremel again to make a little more room in the cavity. And then re-painting...
I like the original knobs that came on the guitar and wanted to re-use them, but they're sized for metric Asian pots.
So here's a hack that I've learned about to "re-spline" the knobs.
Take an old pot that you don't intend to use again. (Why I save all my crap and wind up with big bins of spare parts hahaha)
Find some way to hold it still, a vise is handy.
Heat the shaft with a heat gun, I get it real nice and hot (and this usually kills the pot incidentally)
Then when it's still good and hot, firmly push the knob onto the hot knurling until it seats. The hot metal will "re-form" the splines in the plastic pot. Once it cools, it looks like it came from the factory that way.
And voila, all 4 knobs ready for my imperial sized pots.
So, the pickups are in but I haven't started the rest of the wiring yet. With the black shielding paint the gap around the pickups don't catch your eye as much. Once the strings are on it will be even less noticeable.
This has been a bit of a pain in the arse. I'm NOT completely sure I didn't kill the pickups with my mods. I'll find out tomorrow....
The adventure continues......
jubal81
Well-known member
Gorgeous!
Welcome to the 620 club!
Mine's a Mapleglo. I've had it for 12 years and hasn't ambered as much as I'd hoped.
SillyOctpuss
Well-known member
MichaelW
Well-known member
I WISH it was a 620
It's a HarleyBacker heh
MichaelW
Well-known member
So the adventure continues. Between yesterday and this morning I've got the guitar pretty much done....but not without a few more surprises.
Before wiring up the pickups I decided to get the fingerboard and frets ready.
The frets were level enough and only needed some minor dressing. There were a couple of high spots but since I won't be doing much bending on this guitar I wasn't too concerned about get it gnats ass perfect level.
The fret work was decent, just needed some dressing and a good polish.
According to the specs the fretboard wood is supposed to be Indian Laurel, it's pretty dark and I originally thought it must have been dyed like my other Harley Benton. But as I was scraping and smoothing out the fb with a razor I found that it's actually ebony, and a pretty nice hunk too. Rather surprising.
Next up was the nut, its made of some sort of plastic and was not fit very well, so I decided to pop it off and cut a new nut.
First surprise, the nut was held on by two big blobs of glue......
I mean BIG blobs, as in the glue was the only thing making contact in the nut slot!
So I took a look at the nut slot and found this...
Like wtf?? Looks like someone had a boo boo routing the nut slot.
I put a straight edge on it....whoa......thats not gonna work!
Check out the difference in depth of the route from the bass to the treble side....
There's like an 1/8th" diff. So I needed to fix the slot first. Oh and check out the fretboard, it looks like there's two pieces laminated one on top of the other.
Strange stuff indeed, but then, it's a $230 guitar soooo........
continued in next post....
Before wiring up the pickups I decided to get the fingerboard and frets ready.
The frets were level enough and only needed some minor dressing. There were a couple of high spots but since I won't be doing much bending on this guitar I wasn't too concerned about get it gnats ass perfect level.
The fret work was decent, just needed some dressing and a good polish.
According to the specs the fretboard wood is supposed to be Indian Laurel, it's pretty dark and I originally thought it must have been dyed like my other Harley Benton. But as I was scraping and smoothing out the fb with a razor I found that it's actually ebony, and a pretty nice hunk too. Rather surprising.
Next up was the nut, its made of some sort of plastic and was not fit very well, so I decided to pop it off and cut a new nut.
First surprise, the nut was held on by two big blobs of glue......
I mean BIG blobs, as in the glue was the only thing making contact in the nut slot!
So I took a look at the nut slot and found this...
Like wtf?? Looks like someone had a boo boo routing the nut slot.
I put a straight edge on it....whoa......thats not gonna work!
Check out the difference in depth of the route from the bass to the treble side....
There's like an 1/8th" diff. So I needed to fix the slot first. Oh and check out the fretboard, it looks like there's two pieces laminated one on top of the other.
Strange stuff indeed, but then, it's a $230 guitar soooo........
continued in next post....
MichaelW
Well-known member
I got a couple of precut nut blanks. Just kinda fitting it in place, I had a feeling that once I leveled the nut slot it would be too deep.
Even my bone blanks didn't look tall enough.
But first things first....
I started out with a flat needle file to start truing up the slot.
Then I used double sided tape and glued some sandpaper to the bottom of the nut blank and used that as a file.
Ok now it's trued up and flattened. Now the nut will make actual contact with the neck wood.
I went ahead and strung it up to check the geometry, it's playable but the slots are too deep and there's some buzzing on some strings.
Plus I didn't have enough height to level the strings at the nut.
So after thinking about it a bit, taking a smoke break, expleting a few choice expletives.....I decided to shim the slot with a piece of ebony veneer. I generally don't like shims. But I've been using this same sheet of ebony veneer for literally 28 years now, both under the saddle of acoustics and under some nuts and it's been sonically transparent.
It gave my just enough height to properly cut the nut slots. So with a little bit go tight bond, in it went. I committed...
I was wondering if I needed to replace the bridge with a Rickenbacker 12 saddle version so it would intonate, but surprisingly it intonated quite well with the stock bridge.
Since I was cutting a new nut anyway, I decided to "Ricky-fy" it but swapping the order of the strings with the lower string on top.
It looks like the saddles were designed for this anyway, I just needed to flip the first 4 saddles reverse.
Ideally on a 12 string you want the tops of the strings to be "about" even at the nut. The trick is to set the lower string to the proper depth and above the first fret, then try to match the upper course to be close to the same height at the top. This makes your fingers contacts both strings at the same time and it makes it a little easier to play.
I didn't quite have enough height to get it exact but I came pretty close. I'd have to go find a massively oversized bone blank to make it perfect. But as it is, it turned out to be quite playable.
Continued un next post...
Even my bone blanks didn't look tall enough.
But first things first....
I started out with a flat needle file to start truing up the slot.
Then I used double sided tape and glued some sandpaper to the bottom of the nut blank and used that as a file.
Ok now it's trued up and flattened. Now the nut will make actual contact with the neck wood.
I went ahead and strung it up to check the geometry, it's playable but the slots are too deep and there's some buzzing on some strings.
Plus I didn't have enough height to level the strings at the nut.
So after thinking about it a bit, taking a smoke break, expleting a few choice expletives.....I decided to shim the slot with a piece of ebony veneer. I generally don't like shims. But I've been using this same sheet of ebony veneer for literally 28 years now, both under the saddle of acoustics and under some nuts and it's been sonically transparent.
It gave my just enough height to properly cut the nut slots. So with a little bit go tight bond, in it went. I committed...
I was wondering if I needed to replace the bridge with a Rickenbacker 12 saddle version so it would intonate, but surprisingly it intonated quite well with the stock bridge.
Since I was cutting a new nut anyway, I decided to "Ricky-fy" it but swapping the order of the strings with the lower string on top.
It looks like the saddles were designed for this anyway, I just needed to flip the first 4 saddles reverse.
Ideally on a 12 string you want the tops of the strings to be "about" even at the nut. The trick is to set the lower string to the proper depth and above the first fret, then try to match the upper course to be close to the same height at the top. This makes your fingers contacts both strings at the same time and it makes it a little easier to play.
I didn't quite have enough height to get it exact but I came pretty close. I'd have to go find a massively oversized bone blank to make it perfect. But as it is, it turned out to be quite playable.
Continued un next post...
MichaelW
Well-known member
Pickups survived my surgery, woohooo!
The pickups sound really good! Definitely got a lot of jangle and output. It was a worthwhile upgrade over the stock pickups.
So I'm calling this project done for now. I still have a set of "set up" strings on it that I cobbled together from bulk strings.
I have a set of Elixirs I plan to put on it and I still need to give the nut a bit of a polish, but for now I'm done.
Really liking how this plays and sounds.
It was more effort than I anticipated but in the end it's a perfect 12 string for me. I can get the sounds I want out of it but not have a lot of money tied up in an occasional use guitar.
Thanks for accompanying me on this journey!
I recorded a demo of how it sounds. It's uploading to EwwToob at the moment. I'll update once it's uploaded.
The pickups sound really good! Definitely got a lot of jangle and output. It was a worthwhile upgrade over the stock pickups.
So I'm calling this project done for now. I still have a set of "set up" strings on it that I cobbled together from bulk strings.
I have a set of Elixirs I plan to put on it and I still need to give the nut a bit of a polish, but for now I'm done.
Really liking how this plays and sounds.
It was more effort than I anticipated but in the end it's a perfect 12 string for me. I can get the sounds I want out of it but not have a lot of money tied up in an occasional use guitar.
Thanks for accompanying me on this journey!
I recorded a demo of how it sounds. It's uploading to EwwToob at the moment. I'll update once it's uploaded.
DeadAirMD
Well-known member
Wow! That's a Harley Benton????? Man, what a beautiful looking guitar!
I'm looking into getting one of their baritone guitars to get my feet wet. The music I play is the absolute farthest from djent, so I figured it would be fun to throw in some bassy guitar into the mix of what I play.
I'm looking into getting one of their baritone guitars to get my feet wet. The music I play is the absolute farthest from djent, so I figured it would be fun to throw in some bassy guitar into the mix of what I play.
MichaelW
Well-known member
Would love to see that when you get it! And uhm.....thanks for pointing out that I'm lacking a Baritone in my collection hahahaha
DeadAirMD
Well-known member
This is the Harley Benton JA Baritone BK. They have some more vintage ones, but this one reminds me of the 1st guitar I ever got, 27 years ago, a black Aria Pro. It's SO cheap price wise, but I just bought a Epiphone SG Standard, which I'm beyond in love with, so I need to give that some love for a few months before I bring another geet into the mix.
I know you have a few enablers on here @MichaelW haha, I'll be your baritone one. Love following your guitar upgrade logs, I learn beyond a ton from those. Extremely inspirational. Would love to hear a sound sample when you're all finished with the 12.
fyvm boys... j/k now I know WTF I need to move my pair of 300's in to... I've stalled on the wood work of a LH anniversary Ric clone I can just recut for a SG/double cut(no cavities routed!)style body... definitely prefer the 6xx style...2300 ric vs total ov about 4~450 modding a HBenton..
very good end product Mike!
very good end product Mike!