Trying to decide which amp to build next...

Next amp build:

  • British 18W TMB

    Votes: 6 25.0%
  • Tweed Deluxe 5E3

    Votes: 18 75.0%

  • Total voters
    24
  • Poll closed .

Fingolfen

Well-known member
Yes... I now officially have the bug. Between my new Marshall and the 5F2-A I just got finished (not to mention my AC15), I've suddenly discovered the joy of real tube amp sounds...

So now I'm trying to decide what to build next (realizing I'll likely eventually build both) before I start tackling Hiwatts and Dumbles...

I've narrowed it down to the Tweed Deluxe 5E3 and the British 18W TMB at this point, but I can be lobbied if someone has a better idea of something in roughly the same difficulty range.

Feel free to weigh in! 😁
 
Both are great amps. 5E3 a lil rounder sounds like it breathes more, part of it's charm is no NFB loop, so its a bit raw-er. 18W a bit tighter. Rough estimate on tones. Speakers and cabs can make a big difference.

If it were me I would build the 5E3 combo first, less parts easier build get a bit more experience, and then an 18W head. And you said you hav an ac15, to you have 15W 2 el84 amp.
 
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5e3. They are fun as they are, and other than putting a master volume in the second speaker jack, most folks love them as they are (ask Larry Carlton, Don Felder, Billy Gibbons or Joe Walsh )

the 18w, most people end up modding after a bit and get tired of it… it’s not exactly Marshall sounding (Marshall rebadged a Watkins amp), nor is it vox sounding, so folks tend to get tired and tweak it toward those circuits (I picked up an 18w head someone built as a kit for next to nothing and rewired it into a min JCM800 a few years back). This makes it a great platform to build and later mod. Chassis/kits generally aren’t as cramped to work in compared to the 5e3

can’t go wrong with either, though. I’d personally do the 5e3 first, though, just because it seems like that’s what everyone does for their second build lol
 
What he said. A good 5E3 is a thing of joy. If you make a 5E3 may I recommend using a MM PT with a slightly lower B+? I like the FTDP-350. Most 5E3 PTs will give you too high a B+ which makes it not bias properly with the stock value resistor (which can obviously be changed) and can often stress the 6V6 power tubes.

And if you make a Marshall 18W try the transformers from GDS. I've used a few of his sets and they are excellent- even used them for 15W Voxes.

Other small amps which are easy to build and sound great are things like the 5F11 Vibrolux (build with a 12" speaker) and the 6G3 Brown Deluxe. Just killer amps.
 
What he said. A good 5E3 is a thing of joy. If you make a 5E3 may I recommend using a MM PT with a slightly lower B+? I like the FTDP-350. Most 5E3 PTs will give you too high a B+ which makes it not bias properly with the stock value resistor (which can obviously be changed) and can often stress the 6V6 power tubes.

And if you make a Marshall 18W try the transformers from GDS. I've used a few of his sets and they are excellent- even used them for 15W Voxes.

Other small amps which are easy to build and sound great are things like the 5F11 Vibrolux (build with a 12" speaker) and the 6G3 Brown Deluxe. Just killer amps.
Also good recommendations. And let me also add, if you are considering an 18watt or 5e3, a 5f6 bassman/marshall plexi build isn’t that much more difficult. You are still in the moderate gain territory and no craziness to have to deal with the likely oscillations and ground buzz/hum issues (like the typical black/silver fender trem&reverb amps can have… and high gain is another beast altogether)
 
What he said. A good 5E3 is a thing of joy. If you make a 5E3 may I recommend using a MM PT with a slightly lower B+? I like the FTDP-350. Most 5E3 PTs will give you too high a B+ which makes it not bias properly with the stock value resistor (which can obviously be changed) and can often stress the 6V6 power tubes.

On the MM power transformer - you're talking about this one, yes: https://www.mercurymagnetics.com/product/ftdp-350-2/
 
On the MM power transformer - you're talking about this one, yes: https://www.mercurymagnetics.com/product/ftdp-350-2/
You definitely get what you pay for when it comes to transformers. From my experience, your cost in parts to build a specific amp will be very close to what the mass produced machine built of version of the amp costs. That said, I fully agree with the sentiment to buy the right iron to begin with… you’ll be much happier in the end
For example
- parts to build a Black panel Princeton Reverb for example, will be around $1000 if you use good parts. That is just about where the factory built PCB reissues come in, which use mediocre parts. Compare that to the special edition hand wired versions using premium parts thar run $2500+. So what you get by DIY is the premium handwired version at the mass produced price point version.
 
For example
- parts to build a Black panel Princeton Reverb for example, will be around $1000 if you use good parts. That is just about where the factory built PCB reissues come in, which use mediocre parts. Compare that to the special edition hand wired versions using premium parts thar run $2500+. So what you get by DIY is the premium handwired version at the mass produced price point version.

I agree completely - any amp builds like this are the equivalent to a handwired, not the HVM version. I've been purchasing bits for some other amp projects that I'm holding off on until I build a couple more... but it's always worth doing right. :D
 
I agree completely - any amp builds like this are the equivalent to a handwired, not the HVM version. I've been purchasing bits for some other amp projects that I'm holding off on until I build a couple more... but it's always worth doing right. :D
It was definitely a labor of love when I did it professionally! Since you had to price to meet the market, and essentially only charge 2x material costs for the total build, my hourly rate dropped from $60/hr for mods/repairs to roughly 1/4 that for builds. This is also where you really balanced between paying others to do things vs diy (do you pay a cabinet shop, or build your own etc… lots of ethical debates with myself there). And when you run your own business, hard to pay your own insurance and overhead that way! Fortunately I only did 1 build for every half dozen repair/mod!
 
You definitely get what you pay for when it comes to transformers. From my experience, your cost in parts to build a specific amp will be very close to what the mass produced machine built of version of the amp costs. That said, I fully agree with the sentiment to buy the right iron to begin with… you’ll be much happier in the end
For example
- parts to build a Black panel Princeton Reverb for example, will be around $1000 if you use good parts. That is just about where the factory built PCB reissues come in, which use mediocre parts. Compare that to the special edition hand wired versions using premium parts thar run $2500+. So what you get by DIY is the premium handwired version at the mass produced price point version.
This was the delimma I ran into when I finally just bought my blues deluxe.
 
That's it. Of course being in Australia I had to use the PT with the 240V primary but still, I managed to build an amp where the stock(ish) value of 270ohm biased the amp just shy of 100%, which is where you want it to be in a cathode biased amp. And that's with the B+ being in the recommended voltages, not 30-40V higher. It does make a difference.

I have used Mojo transformers in the past and they work just fine when biased properly. But the MM trannies do sound better - clearer, sweeter, etc. Mojo are (I believe) made by Heyboer, who can make an excellent transformer. But Mojo's spec must be to a price because they don't quite sound as good as the MMs to me. The GDS I like in the Marshall 18W are also Heyboer but made to GDS spec, and sound fantastic.
 
I cut my amp building teeth on a 5e3 with MM transformers with a SDG kit (defunct now).

fwiw, I don't think the higher price is worth it compared to heyboer. I have purchased almost 100 MM transformers and chokes but they have just gone ridiculously high priced. And I'm only a few miles from them, so I pay $0 for freight as I do "will call" . I really didn't notice any decrement in quality when I switched to Heyboer.

Be aware that ALL tweed builds are *very* cramped. It is like building a ship in a bottle.... but there is nothing like the sound of a Tweed Deluxe with a Tele.

O
M
G
......
 
That's it. Of course being in Australia I had to use the PT with the 240V primary but still, I managed to build an amp where the stock(ish) value of 270ohm biased the amp just shy of 100%, which is where you want it to be in a cathode biased amp. And that's with the B+ being in the recommended voltages, not 30-40V higher. It does make a difference.

I have used Mojo transformers in the past and they work just fine when biased properly. But the MM trannies do sound better - clearer, sweeter, etc. Mojo are (I believe) made by Heyboer, who can make an excellent transformer. But Mojo's spec must be to a price because they don't quite sound as good as the MMs to me. The GDS I like in the Marshall 18W are also Heyboer but made to GDS spec, and sound fantastic.
Being in the home of the kangaroos, you are only a short hop (pun intended) away from one of the best minds in the transformer world- New Zeland’s own Simcha Delft!

So if I go the Tweed route, on my previous build I subbed out the kit's carbon comp resistors with carbon films from Amplified parts... same this time? "Moar Mojo" with the comps????
Some will disagree, but let’s just say, I’ve done blind a/b tests with some of the best ears, where carbon comp, carbon film, and metal film were used (of course matched by actual value not printed value… and no one could tell which was which. Personally, I truly believe what folks hear between the older amps and new are a combination of 2 things: transformers are built a LOT different and it affects tone, AND, the “magic” they hear from the carbon comps is due to them being drifted so far out of spec, they are comparing apples to oranges.

That said, carbon comps look “right”, but are prone to drifting out of spec after some time, developing micro cracks and absorbing atmospheric moisture, causing the Rice Krispies syndrome old Fenders have (snap, crackle pop and hiss).
Carbon films are cheap, and don’t suffer the fate of the carbon comps as frequently… and you can sound cool saying you use carbon resistors.
Metal Films really don’t have any of the problems of carbon types. I’ve heard folks say they sound sterile, but any testing I’ve done, no one heard it (and no one ever called a Soldano SLO sterile). But they are the most expensive and look out of place.

The joke I’ve been running with is: I’d love to extract all the moisture that vintage carbon comps absorb, bottle it and sell it as “vintage mojo”

End of the day, you’ll hear opinions from everyone, so take it as you will and do what you want. (And for fun, read Randall Aiken’s white papers… lots of good info and debunking of a lot of myths scientifically)
 
The side benefit of going with the carbon films on this build would be... well... I still have some leftovers from the 5F2-A build... not that resistors are really going to be the big cost sink here... though I am looking at the Jupiter electrolytic capacitors...
 
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