Where are all the people that know how to do shit?

Yeah I think the willingness to put in the effort and learn is at least 90% of what most employers need. Just give a fuck about what you do...
This is why 90% of my career has either been on stage or in the field of social work. Neither were leading to any kind of retirement but at least I gave a shit. Now as a stay home dad, I've maximized my low pay / "give a shit" ratio.
 
IMO: a decaying education system, an overall comfortable life breeding entitled youths, capitalism squeezing people for whatever they've got, salaries too low to allow people to live a comfortable life, a brazen political class that glorifies ignorance and bigotry while having no class, everybody and everything becoming very casual and less respectful, too many role models that sell the idea that being smart is not cool, social media pushing hedonism to the extreme.

People are not prepared by schools, they hate the idea of jobs and they are not interested in doing good work because it doesn't reward like it used to.

Mindless entertainment is rampant, meaning people consider watching TV series a hobby.

How many people do you know who do something beyond their job, family life and streaming-related entertainment?
How many people do you know who are musicians and learn music related electronics like us?
I understand hating your job, not too crazy about it either, but my hobbies teach me to love my work.
 
It’s amazing what just giving a shit can accomplish.

See that goes both ways and it's something most employers just don't get. It's amazing they don't seem to understand that if you give a shit about your employees and look after them they'll work harder and work to a higher standard.

Also not paying starvation wages would help. I genuinely wouldn't want to work in the environment you guys have in the US of At Will companies. That's some serious bullshit right there.
 
In many fields (oddly enough, the ones I know most about tend to need a "professional degree") it is not expected that a new employee know much about the tasks at hand. The modern notion is that if you are trained in the general field, they'll be able to teach you. To an extent, there's truth in this—learning on the job is several times faster than any other way. But this is not to say the companies wouldn't prefer having new hires able to just get to work. I've had a number of architects and landscape architects tell me that they really love students from Cal Poly, (in San Lous Obispo, not "Cal Tech") because they have been taught ho to do the work, as opposed to students from more acclaimed architecture schools, which are often clueless about how to proceed.

But yeah, as basically a former machine shop owner, it's much nicer to give someone a drawing and just let them attack it. That said, as long as your desire to work shows, and you are willing to follow suggestions, etc.—I'm sure you'll be valued. Never be afraid to say you're not sure how to do something!

Both good points- I think the true learning will begin when I'm spending 40hrs/week on the machines running jobs.

I'm planning on starting work at a large facility that can afford all of the mistakes I'll surely make in the beginning; after making an ass out of myself and asking all the stupid questions for awhile, I'll find a smaller shop close to home where I can try to actually start building my reputation.

I was just hoping that earning this certificate was going to be something I could be a bit more proud of. Until I have real experience, I'll sort of feel like an imposter saying, "I'm trained as a machinist" even though I'll have the credentials some shops won't hire me without.
 
I work in tech where historically engineers have been treated with white gloves. And for good reasons: the work is hard and the responsibilities are great. And it had fostered a really good work culture and ethics. In the last year I have seen all that slowly fall apart. We are getting squeezed more and it’s more and more apparent that our employers do not really care and that’s eroding the culture. I don’t think we are in an awful place but seeing the change feels sad.

That said, I am fortunate to be in this industry because the employers are still better than many others and engineers are still treated with white gloves by most standards. I can only imagine how people in other sectors are being treated these days. I hope things will get easier once the economy improves a bit!
 
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Both good points- I think the true learning will begin when I'm spending 40hrs/week on the machines running jobs.

I'm planning on starting work at a large facility that can afford all of the mistakes I'll surely make in the beginning; after making an ass out of myself and asking all the stupid questions for awhile, I'll find a smaller shop close to home where I can try to actually start building my reputation.

I was just hoping that earning this certificate was going to be something I could be a bit more proud of. Until I have real experience, I'll sort of feel like an imposter saying, "I'm trained as a machinist" even though I'll have the credentials some shops won't hire me without

Be proud of your certificate. If you work hard, own your mistakes and treat others with respect, you’ll be way ahead of many folks.
 
Companies have destroyed employee loyalty in the name of profits. They’ve worked out that it’s cheaper in the short run to hire from outside the company for that new job opening (train one) than to promote from within and hire the lower position (train two).

As a result, the best/quickest way for upward movement is to change jobs. Badda-bing, badda-boom.
 
I've noticed a disturbing trend, since so many people are apparently talentless they just copy what others are doing. And one of the things they are copying is REMOVING SEARCH AND THE FAQ's from websites and at the same time replacing easy to read lists with PICTURES which are slow and kludgy.

Great Maker help us all.....:rolleyes:
 
I worked for 3 years in software development. I tried. I did what I could to improve. I cared. After the third year of garbage raises and garbage recognition I told them I was gonna take a hike. Then they worked quick to keep me. At this point they pay me enough to help me ignore the awful company with awful people in an environment that crushes your soul and allows zero flexibility. I'm looking to quit and be a stay at home dad. I doubt that the terrible office jobs are going anywhere. Maybe some people have tried and realized that it doesn't really pay. Maybe jobs should care about employees first. Weird concept I know. But it really is way easier for me to take a 15% raise by job hopping and know absolutely nothing for a year than sticking it out to learn what a company does.
 
I see there are many stay at home dads on the forum? I would love to do that as well honestly! I would play a lot more music I bet :)
 
I'm that sucker who stuck around for 15 years, picking up all of the jobs that fell through the cracks when people shuffle in and out. I got a new position years ago, but that really turned out to be just additional responsibility on top of what I was already doing. Even 5+ years later I'm still not making what the person I took over from was making when they left and I'm doing more work than she ever did in this position.

Productivity gains are essentially wage theft from daily workers doing the lifting. To all you people "quiet quitting" I say keep it up and don't listen to those jokers telling you you're lazy. A business that can't afford to pay it's workers a living wage deserves to die.
 
I had a great job, the people at the top cared about the employees, everyone got good raises and a month vacation after just 10 years. I was there for 22 years. Another company BOUGHT our company when the CEO retired and they canned everyone. They just wanted to eliminate the competition. That's crazy, spending 45 million just to get rid of a competitor? Anyway they gave me a six figure Bonus to sign a piece of paper promising I wouldn't sue them for firing me. Thought it was a good deal but my wife managed to burn through that in like 8 months. Sigh.

I did the independent software contractor gig after that. Pretty much terrible jobs, but I was charging $125 an hour and at that price you really don't care how AFU the people are. I got a pretty good offer from a company that made implantable cochlear audio devices that restored hearing in the deaf and I stayed there till I retired on disability. I was BOTTOM OF THE TOTEM POLE tho, it really sucked to be 'the new guy' instead of the esteemed contractor.

That is the one thing about job hopping that you have to remember, you're starting over from scratch. Vacation benefits, knowing the ropes, working for someone with 1/5th your intelligence and talent, etc.
 
That is the one thing about job hopping that you have to remember, you're starting over from scratch. Vacation benefits, knowing the ropes, etc.
After four years of bitching about people job hopping I finally hopped. 40% raise, better benefits, better skill set to learn. Yeah being on the bottom sucks but there is such a shortage of people that actually know what they are doing that even at the bottom I’m ahead of 90% of people at the new gig knowledge wise. Which is really sad and thus part of the reason I created this thread.
 
After four years of bitching about people job hopping I finally hopped. 40% raise, better benefits, better skill set to learn. Yeah being on the bottom sucks but there is such a shortage of people that actually know what they are doing that even at the bottom I’m ahead of 90% of people at the new gig knowledge wise. Which is really sad and thus part of the reason I created this thread.
I'm just glad I'm retired now, and healthy enough to enjoy it. And on that note it's time to feed the animals, who view me as their slave. ;-)
 
A few observations from the field of electrical engineering, in the utilities:

1.) Stay an individual contributor. It pays the same as first line management and is less hours in the chair.

2.) You don’t have to be passionate about something to be good at it. In fact, it’s better if you aren’t.

3.) New engineers are much smarter than me but have no social skills and really only use entry level jobs as stepping stones. Frankly, colleges are telling them to do this which is a major failure of higher education.
Some gems here, especially the individual contributor one. A good manager has to endure a lot of sacrifice which is unseen by those they're sacrificing for.

The ability to be successful is less about the skills you have/know but more about the ability to get things done. You can always learn how to do XYZ but if you can't pull things together to completion then what's the point?
 
Andare mentioned entitled youth...

Tonight I was driving my mother home after dinner, when a couple of pre-teen/early teen kids were crossing where I needed to turn — I'm all about pedestrians' rights, but these kids didn't make eye contact with me, no nod or friendly wave, and then... p o k e d a l o n g... What are parents teaching their kids? I grew up and crossed when it was safe to do so and if I saw a car coming I made eye-contact with the driver and even sped up my steps if the driver was courteous enough to slow down for me. Yes, this is a simple small example, but it's not isolated and can be extrapolated to represent the bigger picture of modern life, IMO.



When I freelanced 25 years ago, I was paid about 30¢/word; the current going rate for any institutions/entities that I used to freelance for is ...

...30¢/word.

A quarter of a century passes and I'm still paid the same rate throughout?
I'd make more dosh stocking shelves or flipping burgers...


The most recent Joe-job I had, it was obvious the manager didn't give a crap about people or good work, so after three-months they wanted to keep me on probation instead of putting me on the regular payroll at the same rate as the other people — I walked and they had to hire and train somebody up again. They'll continue to burn through staff and that Co won't be winning any awards this year as they used to.


My friend has managed to survive mass firings, mergers, buyouts and a host of other problems in his company. Everyone in the US gets 3-weeks vacation, but the Canadians only get 2 weeks. When his 30-year anniversary came up, he asked for that 3rd week and it was rejected. The only thing he got was a mini-bottle of 30-year-old Scotch, and that came from ME 'cause it's all I could afford to give him — the company gave him jack-all.


I think I should go build something, this thread is making me...
 
When I freelanced 25 years ago, I was paid about 30¢/word; the current going rate for any institutions/entities that I used to freelance for is ...

...30¢/word.

A quarter of a century passes and I'm still paid the same rate throughout?
I'd make more dosh stocking shelves or flipping burgers...

We have much better workers rights in the UK vs the US, however, your point above on wage stagnation @Feral Feline is probably the biggest issue in our employment market.

I think I should go build something, this thread is making me...

Agreed
 
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