Electronics Autodidactory

[Orson Anton Welleson]

Greetings,

Maybe this is the requisite self introduction? I dunno'...

Anyway, I've been reading posts at this forum for about two years, then started buying PCBs here almost a year ago. I had bought from Guitar PCB years back, before spending years building on vero, which I still enjoy quite a bit.

So anyway, here's what wanted to pose to allayouse guys (any gals here?)

I've been building, modding and working on/with pedals since around 2007. In 2021, I began actually reading and studying electronics; Stan Gibilisco's well known book, and a few others. I understand most of the basics, Ohm's law, resistance, capacitance, series/parallel, and so on. I hit a wall with this studying. Partly because I felt I wasn't getting anywhere, and wasn't really learning the subject. Then my wife became ill, seriously ill, and that has consumed all of the last two years. I'm starting to crack the books again, watch videos, and so on. But there's a certain mental resistance, because of the feeling of spinning my wheels, as it were. I feel I need to change my approach here. See if I can trick the mind, because the interest is still there. It's been there since I was a kid, with the Radio Shack 1001 Electronics Experiements, crystal radios, and the like.

The other thing is, I see the more complex math, and that really stops me in my tracks. I suspect eventually I won't be able to avoid it. Furthermore, what I see discussed here and elsewhere (FSB, etc) beyond the basics, is an extremely complex subject that is seemingly endless. Subjects, concepts and principles you need to know in order to be able to really understand and be able to work with this, even just as a hobby.

So had did you learn electronics? What would you suggest for pushing through, past the basics? In all the reading I've done, I have yet to see how resistors and capacitors interact, raise or lower a given frequency, how certain components interact with other components. If a person really is interested, and would like to continue to learn, where would you go?

I hope all this makes sense, and actually conveys the desire to learn, understanding the basics and moving on from that.

Anyway, I've enjoyed reading all your discussions, and appreciate the help I've received here so far, with the couple of posts I've made thus far.

Regards,

OAW

 

[BuddytheReow]

I think it depends on what you want to learn. I noticed breadboarding really solidified many things I read about.

Thread 'Resources'

Aug 18, 2021

Post links to supplies, tools, tutorials, cat videos, that turbo-lift blooper reel. Anything related to breadboarding (makes sense huh?)

• fig
• Replies: 42
• Forum: The Test Kitchen

• 

You're always welcome to go down the tube amp route and learn about that. That's a whole other beast that covers some territory in the pedal world.

 

[Aleph Null]

If books are the lecture, then bread-boarding is the lab! Generally, guitar pedal circuits don't need to be finely tuned, so you can get away without doing the math as long as you understand the equation—that is to say, if you know what values to change in a circuit block to get the results you want. Bread-boarding is the best way to get an intuition for circuit blocks. If you're not sure what to bread board, I'd recommend digging around in Chuck's Boneyard until something strikes your fancy. If you are at the place where you can start to recognize circuit blocks in a schematic, you could move on to designing with a goal in mind. A lot of my designs arise this way, where I know I want a certain set of features, but I don't necessarily know how I should implement all of them. On the hunt for a solution to a problem, I often encounter new circuit blocks or principles that I hadn't before. That new information may or may not get used for the current design, but it's more inspiration and tools I can use for future designs. The advantage to this approach is that the learning is motivated by a specific goal and you can make progress even if you don't reach the goal.

 

[vigilante398]

So how did you learn electronics?

One project at a time.

What would you suggest for pushing through, past the basics?

One project at a time.

If a person really is interested, and would like to continue to learn, where would you go?

Depends on the project.

I haven't been doing this as long as some others, but the best advice I can give is ask questions. All the questions. If you don't already know the answer, it's not a stupid question. And seriously, I would say take it one project at a time, but do everything you can to understand every aspect of the project. Electrosmash analyses are excellent for this, they really dissect things and give you all the gory details. And if there isn't already an analysis out there for the thing you're working on, start asking those questions. Worst case scenario nobody will answer, but more likely than not you'll find someone that had the same question as you and can help answer it. The chances of getting into a new technology with things that have literally never been done before are pretty slim (though admittedly not impossible) with guitar pedals.

After a while you may find that someone else is asking a question that you already found the answer to, and next thing you know you'll turn into a person that others come to with their questions. And that's an odd feeling. We're all learning, we're all figuring things out, and we hang out and help each other. It's pretty great.

Sometimes we may even play guitar.

 

[Nostradoomus]

After a while you may find that someone else is asking a question that you already found the answer to, and next thing you know you'll turn into a person that others come to with their questions. And that's an odd feeling. We're all learning, we're all figuring things out, and we hang out and help each other. It's pretty great.

When in doubt message Chuck or Robert

It’s beautiful.

 

[jubal81]

One project at a time.

This is really the way.

Think about a really ambitious project with no "roadmap." There will be a series of problems to figure out and as you solve them one by one, you'll be forced to research, test and experiment.

The biggest tool for helping me understand things was an oscilloscope. Being able to see what the circuit was doing to the test signal when I made changes on a breadboard massively accelerated my understanding of how things work.

 

[Erik S]

I see the more complex math, and that really stops me in my tracks. I suspect eventually I won't be able to avoid it.

Nah, don't sell yourself short, you can do it.

I've been avoiding math my whole life!

 

[jwin615]

The older TI cookbooks are good, regarding filters especially.
https://www.vyssotski.ch/BasicsOfInstrumentation/FilterDesignIn30Seconds.pdf is a good one.
I think a good basic understanding of audio as a whole is advantageous. The Yamaha sound reinforcement handbook is a good starting point and can be had used for a few bucks.
If you haven't already, the Douglas Self books are a good resource.

 

[swelchy]

Still painting by numbers here, but there has been several light bulbs that have clicked on in the process...

 

[Erik S]

The Yamaha sound reinforcement handbook

Looks good! Just ordered a copy.

 

[Orson Anton Welleson]

I think it depends on what you want to learn. I noticed breadboarding really solidified many things I read about.

Thread 'Resources'

Aug 18, 2021

Post links to supplies, tools, tutorials, cat videos, that turbo-lift blooper reel. Anything related to breadboarding (makes sense huh?)

• fig
• Replies: 42
• Forum: The Test Kitchen

• 

You're always welcome to go down the tube amp route and learn about that. That's a whole other beast that covers some territory in the pedal world.

Funny you should mention that. I bought some bread boards from Tayda. They are sitting on the table, waiting to be set up and go through and experiement with Fuzz Face circuits. Also coincidental, I bought an amp kit for a 5E3 from Weber. I *was* going to start digging into that, then my wife began having serious health issues. fortuntely we're starting on the other side of all that. I had been reading and studying heavily for that. I need to go back and refresh all that info, and get started. I actually bought some time from a guy who teaches all this sort of stuff. He asked me to get the amp assembled, then we'd power it up and go through it when I had done that.

If books are the lecture, then bread-boarding is the lab! Generally, guitar pedal circuits don't need to be finely tuned, so you can get away without doing the math as long as you understand the equation—that is to say, if you know what values to change in a circuit block to get the results you want. Bread-boarding is the best way to get an intuition for circuit blocks. If you're not sure what to bread board, I'd recommend digging around in Chuck's Boneyard until something strikes your fancy. If you are at the place where you can start to recognize circuit blocks in a schematic, you could move on to designing with a goal in mind. A lot of my designs arise this way, where I know I want a certain set of features, but I don't necessarily know how I should implement all of them. On the hunt for a solution to a problem, I often encounter new circuit blocks or principles that I hadn't before. That new information may or may not get used for the current design, but it's more inspiration and tools I can use for future designs. The advantage to this approach is that the learning is motivated by a specific goal and you can make progress even if you don't reach the goal.

As you probably saw above, I've got bread boards waiting. That this is mentioned more than a couple of times creates some motivation and intention in that direction.

One project at a time.


One project at a time.


Depends on the project.

I haven't been doing this as long as some others, but the best advice I can give is ask questions. All the questions. If you don't already know the answer, it's not a stupid question. And seriously, I would say take it one project at a time, but do everything you can to understand every aspect of the project. Electrosmash analyses are excellent for this, they really dissect things and give you all the gory details. And if there isn't already an analysis out there for the thing you're working on, start asking those questions. Worst case scenario nobody will answer, but more likely than not you'll find someone that had the same question as you and can help answer it. The chances of getting into a new technology with things that have literally never been done before are pretty slim (though admittedly not impossible) with guitar pedals.

After a while you may find that someone else is asking a question that you already found the answer to, and next thing you know you'll turn into a person that others come to with their questions. And that's an odd feeling. We're all learning, we're all figuring things out, and we hang out and help each other. It's pretty great.

Sometimes we may even play guitar.

I've been doing one project at a time since around 2007. I've built over fifty pedals, to working completion on PCB and vero. Remaining ignorant isn't blissful any longer. Ask questions - I can do that. Yeah, play guitar. That's where all my time went beginning in 1983. so much so that I was fortunate enough to make a full time living doing it from around 1991, until around 2013. Things change, I more or less retired (although I still get the odd call for a gig or recording session). So yeah, some times I even play guitar. Not even nearly as much as I once did. Some times I wonder why I still have all this gear!

When in doubt message Chuck or Robert

It’s beautiful.

Yes! I'm well acquainted with their knowledge from reading threads here repeatedly for at least a year, maybe longer. I have a lot of threads with their help and explanation saved as book marks.

The older TI cookbooks are good, regarding filters especially.
https://www.vyssotski.ch/BasicsOfInstrumentation/FilterDesignIn30Seconds.pdf is a good one.
I think a good basic understanding of audio as a whole is advantageous. The Yamaha sound reinforcement handbook is a good starting point and can be had used for a few bucks.
If you haven't already, the Douglas Self books are a good resource.

TI? All roads lead to Rome. I have an uncle who is an EE (trained in the Navy in the 60s - NEETS) who worked as the head of the TI failure analysis team for twenty-five years. He has been trying to get through to me on this subject since I was a kid. I wish I'd listened more, sooner. I did build the crystal radio he gave me, and got lost in the Radio Shack electronics experiement kit he gave me for Christmas, for many hours. Thanks for the suggestions, I'll follow up on those.

Thanks all, for your helpful replies!

 

[Orson Anton Welleson]

If you haven't already, the Douglas Self books are a good resource.

Odd that with all the books I've bought, material I've gone through, videos watched, etc, I've never heard his name before. Thanks!

 

[pricklyrobot]

I’ve been enjoying these Moritz Klein videos:

Moritz Klein

trying to make DIY electronics more accessible – always open for topic suggestions!

m.youtube.com

He’s mostly focused on synthesizer type stuff, rather than effects pedals. But I think a lot of it is probably still applicable.

He has a really pleasant way of explaining what individual components and circuit blocks are doing and then gradually building them up into more complex circuits.

 

[Orson Anton Welleson]

I’ve been enjoying these Moritz Klein videos:

Moritz Klein

trying to make DIY electronics more accessible – always open for topic suggestions!

m.youtube.com

He’s mostly focused on synthesizer type stuff, rather than effects pedals. But I think a lot of it is probably still applicable.

He has a really pleasant way of explaining what individual components and circuit blocks are doing and then gradually building them up into more complex circuits.

Cool! thank you! It doesn't have to be pedals specifically. My interest is in music electronics in general, pedals, amps and anything else I have a reasonable chance of tackling at this point in my development and level of understanding. I've been watching videos about troubleshooting and repair of consumer electronics. It's all interesting.

 

[Passinwind]

So had did you learn electronics? What would you suggest for pushing through, past the basics?

<extreme geezer alert>
I started winding slot car motors in 1961 or so. Then I started doing home appliance repairs for money a few years later, at age 10. I went to a trade school in 1972. Still learning every day.

I'd suggest starting here: http://www.tubebooks.org/technical_books_online.htm . Start with one of the basic ones and do the not so scary basic math yourself, just like learning scales. No cheating, do the actual math and measurements, and then you'll probably never need to again for quite some time. Seely, Cruft, and Crowhurst are decent places to start, then maybe the Radiotron series, which are my favorites. Don't divert to any online sites for a while, especially YouTube, just undertstand how a tube triode gain stage works and then a transistor one, and then an opamp one. Now move on to simple tone controls. Voila...the world is your oyster.

Oh, and learn to use LTspice. I very rarely have any reason to breadboard anything anymore. YMMV, but give it a shot.

 

[Orson Anton Welleson]

<extreme geezer alert>
I started winding slot car motors in 1961 or so. Then I started doing home appliance repairs for money a few years later, at age 10. I went to a trade school in 1972. Still learning every day.

I'd suggest starting here: http://www.tubebooks.org/technical_books_online.htm . Start with one of the basic ones and do the not so scary basic math yourself, just like learning scales. No cheating, do the actual math and measurements, and then you'll probably never need to again for quite some time. Seeley, Cruft, and Crowhurst are decent places to start, then maybe the Radiotron series. Don't divert to any online sites for a while, especially YouTube, just undertstand how a tube triode gain stage works and then a transistor one, and then an opamp one. Now move on to simple tone controls. Voila...the world is your oyster.

Oh, and learn to use LTspice. I very rarely have any reason to breadboard anything anymore. YMMV, but give it a shot.

Bookmarked the site. Thank you! That will require choosing wisely, as even a full lifetime wouldn't be enough to get through half of what's there.

Seely, Cruft and Crowhurst - is that Walter James Seeley and Donald Crowhurst? I found nothing for a person named Cruft.

Great suggestion, I'll give it a go. Breadboarding is helpful, just because of physically making the connections, and seeing the circuits in a very real, concrete way. That's how it was put to me anyway.

 

[Passinwind]

Bookmarked the site. Thank you! That will require choosing wisely, as even a full lifetime wouldn't be enough to get through half of what's there.

Seely, Cruft and Crowhurst - is that Walter James Seeley and Donald Crowhurst? I found nothing for a person named Cruft.

Great suggestion, I'll give it a go. Breadboarding is helpful, just because of physically making the connections, and seeing the circuits in a very real, concrete way. That's how it was put to me anyway.

Cruft: http://www.tubebooks.org/Books/intro_Cruft_Electronic.pdf

And breadboarding certainly had its place but modeling can save a boatload of time and money if used for the right things. I rarely build drive or fuzz pedals, which would be good examples of stuff that’s so subjective that physical building often tends to give you the best chance of striking gold, IMO.