High-pitched whine in Echoplex Bias & Katana dual pedal vero build

[Drayve85]

Hey y’all! Ok, so, I don’t have the best pics right now, cuz it’s night time and there’s not good lighting, but I got a few. Apologies for the rats nest, I have a hard time getting vero builds to look ‘neat’. They’re both veroboard builds. I have the EP Bias and Katana in a single enclosure, the EP going into the Katana. They both work great on their own, but when they’re both on at the same time, there’s a high-pitched whine that changes pitch when I turn the knobs on the EP. I don’t think it changes when the katanas knob is turned. LT1054’s were used in both circuits. I swapped a 1044CPAZ in to the Katana, but that didn’t change anything. I used the dual circuit off-board wiring diagram off of tagboardeffects. I don’t have a 1n4748 22v Zener in the EP right now, I’m waiting for them to come in the mail, hopefully today. That probably wouldn’t make the whine tho, would it? Thank you in advance for any and all help!! -Dray

 

[Drayve85]

P.S. I didn’t have a 220uf cap @ 35 volts, so I put that huge honker of a cap, a 470uf cap @ 50 volts. Also, I didn’t have a 27uf cap, so I put a 22uf & a 4.7uf. I don’t think that would cause the whine either tho, would it?

 

[temol]

Clean your wiring. IN/OUT wires as short as possible, same with the 3pdt wiring. You can try shielded IN/OUT cables.
Also - keep the wires of the one circuit away from another circuit.

 

[micmac]

You're not providing links to schematics, so not sure what you built there. But if it's charge pump whine I suggest to look at the Aion Ember distortion. That was the first DIY pedal where I didn't have the whiny interaction between different charge pump pedals. I think because Aion placed 470nF MLCC caps around the charge pump. Similarly they did it in the Straylight.

I've been replicating this onto my vero builds and haven't had any problems since.

 

[lowpitch]

You're not providing links to schematics, so not sure what you built there. But if it's charge pump whine I suggest to look at the Aion Ember distortion. That was the first DIY pedal where I didn't have the whiny interaction between different charge pump pedals. I think because Aion placed 470nF MLCC caps around the charge pump. Similarly they did it in the Straylight.

I've been replicating this onto my vero builds and haven't had any problems since.

That's good to know. I've had noise issues with charge pumps on vero before. Layout is important too. Best to keep them away from audio signal paths.

 

[andrewsrea]

Looks like spaghetti. All that wire makes for a great antenna to pull in RFI and create oscillations. I too recommend reducing the wire.

 

[Drayve85]

I know, I know! I have a hard time with rats nests on vero builds. I’m working on it!!lol thanks for all the replies. I’m gonna try the 470nf mlcc cap, and get the wiring down. I’ve just not ever had the whine change pitch when I turn the knobs, it’s usually just a single frequency.here are the layouts I’m using and the schematics for both. Thanks again!

 

[Paradox916]

It’s really common to have charge pump whine when running two circuits with charge pumps if they were both 1044s you could possibly charge them out for high frequency CPs the whine would still exist but it would mostly exist out of your hearing range (in theory) my experience with 1044 and 1054 I’m not sure this can be accomplished depending on how the 1054 is implemented in the circuit, and in practice using two pedals with CPs more often than not you end up with that terrible whine.

 

[Drayve85]

It’s really common to have charge pump whine when running two circuits with charge pumps if they were both 1044s you could possibly charge them out for high frequency CPs the whine would still exist but it would mostly exist out of your hearing range (in theory) my experience with 1044 and 1054 I’m not sure this can be accomplished depending on how the 1054 is implemented in the circuit, and in practice using two pedals with CPs more often than not you end up with that terrible whine.

Damn! I was afraid of that. My best bet would prolly be to put a circuit I. There that doesn’t use a CP. thanks!!

 

[Paradox916]

Damn! I was afraid of that. My best bet would prolly be to put a circuit I. There that doesn’t use a CP. thanks!!

If I were you I would definitely consider only using one circuit that had a charge pump in your signal chain. lead dress is as equally important for reducing any induced noise into the signal, using shielded wire can help but that’s not a “get out of noise jail fee card”using appropriately size rated and type of capacitors can make a difference as well.

 

[Drayve85]

If I were you I would definitely consider only using one circuit that had a charge pump in your signal chain. lead dress is as equally important for reducing any induced noise into the signal, using shielded wire can help but that’s not a “get out of noise jail fee card”using appropriately size rated and type of capacitors can make a difference as well.

Yep! I swapped a Heavy Water build in for the Katana, a boost for a boost, but no charge pump, and now they work great together! No noise, whine, or nothing! Thanks all for the help!

 

[Paradox916]

Yep! I swapped a Heavy Water build in for the Katana, a boost for a boost, but no charge pump, and now they work great together! No noise, whine, or nothing! Thanks all for the help!

Nice! Glad I could help.

 

[Robert]

There are notes in the LT1054 datasheet about syncing the oscillator of two charge pump ICs.

I've never tried it but I'd be interested to know if that solves this type of issue.

 

[Paradox916]

There are notes in the LT1054 datasheet about syncing the oscillator of two charge pump ICs.

I've never tried it but I'd be interested to know if that solves this type of issue.

I always wondered if there was a technical fix for this.

Just looked at the data sheet, this definitely seems like it would be helpful in this sort of an application.
But I’m not sure how that would work with to separate pedals. put an adjustable clock module in there and tune it until it stops squealing maybe?

 

[Drayve85]

There are notes in the LT1054 datasheet about syncing the oscillator of two charge pump ICs.

I've never tried it but I'd be interested to know if that solves this type of issue.

Thanks for telling me about this. I’ll take a look at it and see if I can figure anything out!