Aion Termina (Timmy) to Jan Ray?

N

Noodles

Member
I'm wondering if anyone has used the Termina PCB to create a Jan Ray clone. I'm starting with that PCB rather than the Tommy as a quick look (to me) suggests it's easier to change the values to match the Jan Ray schematic.

I've compared component to component and it seems pretty straightforward. I see the Jan Ray uses a B10K for the volume pot vs an A25K with a 18K resistor in parallel (isn't that basically a 10K pot, in essence?). I'm a little unclear on the log/antilog to linear practical effect. I know the bass switches from a "subtract" to an "add" control.

Here are the changes I'm planning to make. I would appreciate any comments regarding past experience or comments on my approach.

PartTermina ValueJR Value
C139n47pF
C247pF22pF
C3100pF47pF
C439n
C51uF
C610n47n
C72n2150pF
C81uF
C947uF
C10100uF
C11100n
R1510k1M
R23k3
R39k1
R4680R
R51k1k2
R610k3k3
R710k3k3
R818k
R98k27k5
R1010k9k1
R11100R
RPD2M21M
LEDR4k7
D11N5817
D21N9141N4148
D31N9141N4148
D41N9141N4148
D51N9141N4148
D61N9141N4148
IC1LM1458LM4558N
BASS_TRIM10k trimmer
GAINA1MB500K
BASSC50KB50K
TREBLEB50KB10K
VOLUMEA25KB10K
 
Having built both on Vero quite a few times I would merely say that the differences in use are fairly minimal and that the trimmer in the Jan Ray seems superfluous. I'd probably just as soon just use a Timmy. The Vemuram Timmy which I think really is worth building is the Ibanez/Vemuram TSV-808. I have my own version of it where I just use a simplified midrange and leave out the mid pot and clipping switches and it sounds very, very good. I doubt you could built it on a Timmy board though. You could definitely built it on PedalPCB's TSV-808 board though.
 
I've had a few real Timmys. I'm doing this version just to see if I actually notice any differences...plus it amuses me to do a clone of a (mostly) clone of a great pedal. Thanks for your thoughts. I'll check out the TSV-808.
 
If you decide to go down this route and try to build the Jan Ray on the Termina board, the value you have for C1 should be 47nF, not 47pF.

You have R9 and R10 swapped around. R9 should be 9.1KΩ and R10 should be 7.5KΩ.

I think that the rest of the values look okay. You may consider leaving the Bass control as an anti-log "C" taper, it's supposed to feel a little more natural for bass control in this circuit topology.

The clipping section does differ slightly between the two. The Jan Ray's clipping section is equivalent to having the clipping switch in the middle (off) position.
 
Brett said:
If you decide to go down this route and try to build the Jan Ray on the Termina board, the value you have for C1 should be 47nF, not 47pF.

You have R9 and R10 swapped around. R9 should be 9.1KΩ and R10 should be 7.5KΩ.

I think that the rest of the values look okay. You may consider leaving the Bass control as an anti-log "C" taper, it's supposed to feel a little more natural for bass control in this circuit topology.

The clipping section does differ slightly between the two. The Jan Ray's clipping section is equivalent to having the clipping switch in the middle (off) position.
Click to expand...

Good grief - thank you so much for the corrections. I had misread the discussion on freestompboxes re: the voltage divider.

Any thoughts on the volume control? I'm thinking of just leaving it at the Termina values since I think it gets to basically the same place. OTOH, if I used the Jan Ray values, I'm not 100% clear on whether I would leave the 18K/R8 position open or whether it requires a jumper.
 
Noodles said:
I've had a few real Timmys. I'm doing this version just to see if I actually notice any differences...plus it amuses me to do a clone of a (mostly) clone of a great pedal. Thanks for your thoughts. I'll check out the TSV-808.
Click to expand...
I can relate to that! After all, I built a Jan Ray to see if I could hear the difference too!

I find it a bit annoying that people get sucked into buying this stuff. A friend of mine who now lives in another city told me via text that he had discovered this cool, expensive OD called a Jan Ray and it was amazing. He'd never tried a Timmy. How do I tactfully tell him that he could have got much the same thing for a fraction of the price?
 
I know a guy has a Jan Ray and a Timmy and swears the Jan Ray is nothing like the Timmy, If I paid the inflated price of a Jan Ray, I'm sure I would hear a difference too! Whether it was actually there or not!
 
Barry said:
I know a guy has a Jan Ray and a Timmy and swears the Jan Ray is nothing like the Timmy, If I paid the inflated price of a Jan Ray, I'm sure I would hear a difference too! Whether it was actually there or not!
Click to expand...
Bold emphasis mine

I"ve seen that (bolded) sentiment on EVERY forum for DIY I've ever encountered, including a few foreign language ones including Spanish and Russian — I bet you could find that on a Japanese site as well...

😸
 
Feral Feline said:
Bold emphasis mine

I"ve seen that (bolded) sentiment on EVERY forum for DIY I've ever encountered, including a few foreign language ones including Spanish and Russian — I bet you could find that on a Japanese site as well...

😸
Click to expand...
You should check out some audiophile forums. “I know it shouldn’t make a difference, but this $1300 power cable is like veils were lifted from my speakers! I’m hearing things in my reference tracks that I’ve never noticed before! And no I won’t submit to a double blind listening test!”
 
This blog post says the only difference is the corner frequency of the treble control. 10k vs 6k.
Schematic in post, in case it helps anyone in the future --
or TOAN seeking time travelers in the past.
 
I actually built another Jan Ray today from the same schematic jwin615 references above. My only deviation was to use a 3K3 instead of the trimmer, R3 and R12 because I felt that was a bit silly. If you imagine the trimmer at halfway it's close enough to 3K3. I wanted to try it again in case I missed something the first time around.

In that form it sounded even wimpier than I remembered. The treble pot doesn't work very well unless you turn it 3/4 the way up, so I used a C10K pot instead and reduced C7 from 47nF to 22nF. Like this it sounded quite nice but not very inspiring to me. It's very smooth and gentle; possibly too smooth and gentle and I think the stock Timmy sounds better. The Timmy's treble control works better.

I've tried quite a few Timmy variants now, as it's a great circuit to use as a starting point for experimentation. The TSV-808 is a far better Timmy variant IMO. I have tried the Lightspeed but again, for me the stock Timmy works better. I don't know why you'd lose the bass pot. I do like the Dane, especially if you add the bass pot back in. The Dane has a strangely convoluted diode arrangement for clipping but it works rather well and has much more punch and variation than the Jan Ray.
 
And I just noticed that the Jan Ray is almost identical to the Lovepedal Super Stevie! I wonder who copied who?
 
HamishR said:
The treble pot doesn't work very well unless you turn it 3/4
Click to expand...
A 10k treble pot seems pretty useless to me. Almost like they messed up their math, intending to have a 1k corner frequency.
It would be good as a cut only I guess. Could label it "Hiss"
 
jwin615 said:
A 10k treble pot seems pretty useless to me. Almost like they messed up their math, intending to have a 1k corner frequency.
It would be good as a cut only I guess. Could label it "Hiss"
Click to expand...
It is a cut on the Timmy, presumably the Jan Ray as well (but, sounds like, not as well executed). Unless I’m missing your point…
 
HamishR said:
In that form it sounded even wimpier than I remembered. The treble pot doesn't work very well unless you turn it 3/4 the way up, so I used a C10K pot instead and reduced C7 from 47nF to 22nF. Like this it sounded quite nice but not very inspiring to me. It's very smooth and gentle; possibly too smooth and gentle and I think the stock Timmy sounds better. The Timmy's treble control works better.
Click to expand...

Because I’m still a circuit noob…what does the cap change do? Less treble to ground? Maybe I should socket this one and try both.

Out of curiosity, what kind of music do you play? Smooth and gentle is a positive for me as I normally play roots music and use ODs more as slightly dirty boosts. The Lightspeed sounds great to me putting aside the function losses vs a Timmy.
 
I play a lot of roots styles too, and prefer a very low gain OD. But I like a wide dynamic range, as in I want it to be really quiet if I hit softly but really jump if I hit hard. The Jan Ray is a bit too gentle and I suspect it might get a bit lost in a mix.

C7 is a low-pass filter. It sends higher frequencies to ground. By reducing it from 47nF to 22nF you let more treble through. By using a C taper pot where 90% of the action happens in first half of the rotation and using a smaller value cap at C7 I don't have to turn treble most of the way up to get some brightness to the sound. I can get the sound I like at around noon on the treble pot. 10K is ok if you don't need to vary the treble too much.

I played the Jan Ray (with my slight mods) a bit more last night and I like it, but there are pedals I like more. I guess the Lightspeed annoys me because of what it is rather than how it sounds. I am all for simplification but anyone who frequents this place knows that I like a bass knob! If you're playing through a tweed or brown Deluxe which has no bass control then having one on the pedal is enormously useful. Even if your amp does have a bass control a bass knob on an OD helps you to balance it with the amp. Often I think a bass knob is more useful than a treble pot. I added a bass pot to my Dane pedal and it has become way more useful to me. It's not difficult to do because it's just another Timmy variant so most of the work has been done for you. Just look at the circuits and fill in the dots.
 
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