Broken Swollen Pickle

[yazooligan]

This one really has me stumped.

Picked this up from a buddy who’s been using it for several years. One day he powers up his board and it doesn’t light up. Then he brought it to me.

When I plug it in, there is bypass sound passing through, but pushing the footswitch doesn’t change anything. The LED doesn’t light up and bypass sound still passes through. The result is the same with battery or 9v adapter.

Opened it up and there’s a daughter board with a relay that power and audio go through first before going to the main board via socket cables. I can find no scorching or burned up components on either board.

The footswitch connects to the daughter board via a relay and since the pedal is over a decade old I’m leaning toward the footswitch being the source of the problem. I’m not sure whether it’s latching or non-latching or what so I can’t try out a replacement yet.

Any thoughts or suggestions? Thanks!

 

[jimilee]

Burned out relay.

 

[JamieJ]

Yep I was think an issue with the relay or switching to some extent if you get the bypassed sound when activating the footswitch. Is there power where you would expect it to be? Are there any loose cables/poor joints connecting the break outs to the main PCB?

 

[Mcknib]

You can check the relay

Look at the relay datasheet to see what type it is, the expected coil resistance and wiring diagram showing how it connects

You can check that and depending on what type it is SPDT, DPDT etc you can also continuity check the NC contacts have continuity with the armature when it's not energised

Check the armature actually moves by powering the coil, you should hear it clicking

It should be labelled with the part number and voltage If it's 12v for example a 9v battery will energise the coil obviously just don't go over its voltage rating

Some coils are polarized with a surge protection diode use your meters diode check to see if it's polarized and that'll tell you what side is +

Do the checks with no power to the circuit

I'm no expert on relays but I've just done all these tests on a non working two notes le lead preamp that passes bypass signal only switched either way

My LEDs do light up though

I took the relay out and bypassed it after noticing the in and out jack tips had continuity regardless of switch position alas replacing it (although my tests told me the original was good) made no difference

 

[yazooligan]

Thanks guys. That’s a bummer to hear since I just ordered some replacement footswitches.

Well I’ll see if I can find a replacement.

Edit: PedalPCB sells these relays as it turns out. Here’s the datasheet.

 

[yazooligan]

Yep I was think an issue with the relay or switching to some extent if you get the bypassed sound when activating the footswitch. Is there power where you would expect it to be? Are there any loose cables/poor joints connecting the break outs to the main PCB?

Every connection looks solid. No loose cables or anything. I’m not sure how to follow the power with my meter when there are so many SMD components on the daughter board.

 

[Mcknib]

I feel for ya

Is the relay dead

I've got radio silence from two notes they did say they'd ask the boss on Monday if I could get the schematic seeing as it's discontinued but nothing yet

Always worth trying the manufacturer I didn't even think relay until they mentioned it

Just do what I do and drop a coupla technical phrases in your email I've had some sucess getting schematics fooling them into thinking I know what I'm talking about

I've been googling part numbers to see if I can suss it out these must be the smallest sized smd you can get but apart from that it's exactly the same as dealing with through hole

 

[music6000]

I feel for ya

Is the relay dead

I've got radio silence from two notes they did say they'd ask the boss on Monday if I could get the schematic seeing as it's discontinued but nothing yet

Always worth trying the manufacturer I didn't even think relay until they mentioned it

Just do what I do and drop a coupla technical phrases in your email I've had some sucess getting schematics fooling them into thinking I know what I'm talking about

I've been googling part numbers to see if I can suss it out these must be the smallest sized smd you can get but apart from that it's exactly the same as dealing with through hole

View attachment 55677

This is why I still favor the old 3PDT Footswitch true bypass system!

 

[PJS]

It's a bit hard to tell from the photos, but it looks as if the footswitch is one of the 2 pin momentary SPST ones. Checking it should be easy. Just hook up a multimeter on continuity to the switch lugs and toggle it a few times. If you consistently get continuity, and only when you should then the switch is good, if not then it's gone.

 

[yazooligan]

It's a bit hard to tell from the photos, but it looks as if the footswitch is one of the 2 pin momentary SPST ones. Checking it should be easy. Just hook up a multimeter on continuity to the switch lugs and toggle it a few times. If you consistently get continuity, and only when you should then the switch is good, if not then it's gone.

 

[PJS]

It looks as if you are using the diode test setting on your meter. It doesn't sound as if that setting also tests continuity (beeps when there is continuity)? If you don't get beeps when you short the 2 leads together then you will need to test using low ohms setting (probably 200 ohms?). It is hard to see from the videos what you are actually measuring (the leads get in the way). Are there 3 lugs on the switch? If there are, and what the meter is reading is actually a resistance reading, then the switch does look like it isn't well

 

[DeadAirMD]

I have that same DMM, it 100% doesn't "beep" for $5.99 lol!

 

[jwin615]

Switch, relay or DC jack. The 3 "moving" parts.
Likely not the DC jack as it doesn't work on battery either.
Grab a alligator clip, power on the pedal and briefly short the wires to the switch a few times. It relay clicks, it's the switch. If it doesn't cycle, it's the relay.
Unless it's power.
Do you have 9v/5v at the switch on any wire? You should.
That relay is a 5v relay which means you have a voltage converter somewhere. Do you have power in and out of it?
In yes, out no= bad.
In no, out no, check around the DC jack. Need to start probing the input voltage. Start at the jack. The see if the filter cap is shorted. Is the protection diode open or shorted?

 

[yazooligan]

It looks as if you are using the diode test setting on your meter. It doesn't sound as if that setting also tests continuity (beeps when there is continuity)? If you don't get beeps when you short the 2 leads together then you will need to test using low ohms setting (probably 200 ohms?). It is hard to see from the videos what you are actually measuring (the leads get in the way). Are there 3 lugs on the switch? If there are, and what the meter is reading is actually a resistance reading, then the switch does look like it isn't well

There are two lugs. It’s the “vampire fangs” style spst switch. I posted two videos because I switched the leads around as I wasn’t sure which was ground.

I tried again and I get continuity whenever the footswitch is pressed down and held, so I guess that makes it a normally open switch? It’s crazy how many details of this hobby I still don’t know, lol.

I have that same DMM, it 100% doesn't "beep" for $5.99 lol!

Can confirm! I think I’ve gotten my six bucks worth after four years though. Might be time to upgrade lol.

I did manage to find a blog where someone took apart an Aqua Puss with some busted parts and gleaned this about the pin out….



Can I check the functionality of the relay by using the meter on pins 7 and/or 8?

 

[yazooligan]

I’m tempted to replace the relay as I never heard a single click, but that could just mean it’s not getting power and I don’t really want to deal with it anymore anyway since I have a Gerkin PCB and the necessary parts in my shop.

When I probed pins 1 and 10 of the relay I had the meter set at 2000 ohms and it read 274 ohms. According to the data sheet the coil resistance at 5w should be 250 ohms +/-10% so who knows.

I asked Dunlop Support if I could send in the relay PCB for a replacement but they want the whole pedal and quoted me $50 to send it in for repair/return shipping. I’ll probably recommend this to my buddy since I’d have to charge at least that much to put any more time into it.

Thanks for the help though!

 

[HamishR]

Broken and swollen sounds extremely painful.

 

[Barry]

Broken and swollen sounds extremely painful.

When my Pickle swells, I soak in cider!

 

[jimilee]

When my Pickle swells, I soak in cider!

I get a little stuff on my junk. That usually fixes it right up.