Delegate (Warden) Upgrades

wren

New member
Hi, it looks like this PCB layout was done in May, but it's not materialsed is that due to the current situation or was there a problem with the design?

And it would be great to hear feedback from anyone who's compared the two. I'm deciding whether to jump in or wait!

I would also be interested in an updated PCB! Debating on whether to buy the current one or to wait.
 

fig

Village Idiot
@Chuck D. Bones

I am planning to build this and have an initial question; Can an OPA211 be used in substitution of the OPA2134?

From what I gathered, it could (no idea if it should)...:confused:

As someone smarter than me once said "It's over your head".

Thanks!

Crapola...I thought this was the Compressor thread..sorry...see above quote!
 

Chuck D. Bones

Circuit Wizard
OPA211 is a single and OPA2134 is a dual, so no, they are not interchangable. Any FET input dual opamp will work, some better than others. If you don't have an OPA2134, then try a TL072. OPA2211 is a dual, it's not FET input but has low bias current so it will probably work.
 

fig

Village Idiot
OPA211 is a single and OPA2134 is a dual, so no, they are not interchangable. Any FET input dual opamp will work, some better than others. If you don't have an OPA2134, then try a TL072. OPA2211 is a dual, it's not FET input but has low bias current so it will probably work.
I left out a "1" meaning OPA 2111, but your response covers it, thanks! Looking forward to the build.
 

teal

Member
I tried the mods (except point 2) and it improves the sound of the Delegate so much.
Thanks a lot for your work.
There is one thing I'm not so happy with the pedal, but it seems to be the same with the original Warden too.
A bit of the low end gets lost in the compression, so it is not the greatest joy playing it with the bass as I hoped for.
Can I maybe bring the low end back a little bit with point 2 of the improvements?
 

teal

Member
Sorry didn't see your reply earlier, didn't show up in the bar.
Thank you for answer.
I give the pedal still a trial with different settings and now the main problem seems to be the lost of the high end in sustain setting beyond 12:00 and/or slower attack rates.
Talked already with people in a german forum and it turns out that the tone pot works as a high pass filter, so when I try to bring the lost highs back, it simutaneiously cuts of low end, which is bad for bass of course. Also the tonestack comes after the compression, so it can not bring any frequencies back that are lost in compression.
Before the "Major Defect mod" I didn't have this much decrease of highs, so I guess it has to do with that.
In higher compression settings the delegate can't bring the highs of the original signal of any instrument back anymore, except in very smooth settings. Can this have anything to do with your mod?
 
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Chuck D. Bones

Circuit Wizard
Mine does not behave the way you describe.

My mods do not reduce the high-freq response. C4 cuts the treble a bit when the LDR goes completely dark, this is unchanged from the Delegate design. Some LDRs have very high resistance when dark, that may be what you are hearing.

The low freq content does not change when rotating the TONE pot. The high freq content increases when turning clockwise. There may be a perception that the lows are decreased, but they aren't.
 

teal

Member
Maybe I made a bad solderpoint or used a bad cable when I connecting IC1.1 with C14, will check it tomorrow.
One thing is for sure: Without your mod the pedal sounds awful in a lot of settings. Can't believe EQD sells theirs without!

Will also build in a blend knob with integrating a jfet buffer between C1 an IC1.2.
Being able to mix in the original signal makes really sense for bassists in most pedals.
Maybe it is a welcome upgrade for some of you too. Colognel Klink might be happy about a german plus ;)
Could share the link to the schematic if you like, it also values your mod.
Hope we can come up with a random source or something in the future, creating a real Funny Bot Pedal in dedication to the South Park Episode :D
 
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Chuck D. Bones

Circuit Wizard
Maybe I made a bad solderpoint or used a bad cable when I connecting IC1.1 with C14, will check it tomorrow.
One thing is for sure: Without your mod the pedal sounds awful in a lot of settings. Can't believe EQD sells theirs without!

Will also build in a blend knob with integrating a jfet buffer between C1 an IC1.2.
Being able to mix in the original signal makes really sense for bassists in most pedals.
Maybe it is a welcome upgrade for some of you too. Colognel Klink might be happy about a german plus ;)
Could share the link to the schematic if you like, it also values your mod.
Hope we can come up with a random source or something in the future, creating a real Funny Bot Pedal in dedication to the South Park Episode :D
Not sure you need a BLEND knob. I can understand using it with distortion or filter pedals when playing bass. The RATIO knob essentially does the same thing as a BLEND knob in the Warden / Delegate / Col. Klink. It's like a clean bleed.
 

Feral Feline

Well-known member
CDB, another Bass-sick question for you. How does the output cap affect output impedance?

I'm seriously under-educated in regards to calculating input/output impedances, I've recently started to try and correct this deficiency in my knowledge. I've read some EE-forums, and more closely related been reading pedal-forums info... and relative to this thread trying to relate all that back to the Delegate Boneyard specifically.

This was the most helpful info I've found thus far:

RG Keen does a pretty good job explaining things so a non-EE pedal-punter like me can understand things, and I almost do. However, he glossed over the cap by making it 10u, out of the range of relevancy as it relates to output impedance.

In a nutshell, I'm thinking of exchanging the 1u caps in C5 C9 & C11 for 2u2. I realise there's probably very little difference in expanding the low end by going above 1u, but I've got the 2u2 caps and thought I'd try it anyways (kind of like how AMZ's MOSFET boost is fine with bass, but was cap-bumped nonetheless in the Cat'bread Sagrado Poblano Picoso). My thinkering is that I don't want to swamp the detection circuit by making the input cap 2u2, but hope to ensure some good low-end escapes the circuit.

Anyway, I've tried to do my homework and not be just spoonfed an answer, but I'm still hungry to find what if any affect changing the 1u output cap (C11) to 2u2 will have on impedance.

Many Thankages 🙏
 

teal

Member
Not sure you need a BLEND knob. I can understand using it with distortion or filter pedals when playing bass. The RATIO knob essentially does the same thing as a BLEND knob in the Warden / Delegate / Col. Klink. It's like a clean bleed.
The Ratio knob is not very effective anymore after I did the major mod. Also the Tone pot brings not the highs back like it did before.
The sound is more mid and low colored now. Don't know what else I can do to make the sound more neutral again
 

Chuck D. Bones

Circuit Wizard
Have you considered the possibility that there is an error in your build? The things you describe are not normal and no one else has reported these problems.
 

Chuck D. Bones

Circuit Wizard
CDB, another Bass-sick question for you. How does the output cap affect output impedance?

I'm seriously under-educated in regards to calculating input/output impedances, I've recently started to try and correct this deficiency in my knowledge. I've read some EE-forums, and more closely related been reading pedal-forums info... and relative to this thread trying to relate all that back to the Delegate Boneyard specifically.

This was the most helpful info I've found thus far:

RG Keen does a pretty good job explaining things so a non-EE pedal-punter like me can understand things, and I almost do. However, he glossed over the cap by making it 10u, out of the range of relevancy as it relates to output impedance.

In a nutshell, I'm thinking of exchanging the 1u caps in C5 C9 & C11 for 2u2. I realise there's probably very little difference in expanding the low end by going above 1u, but I've got the 2u2 caps and thought I'd try it anyways (kind of like how AMZ's MOSFET boost is fine with bass, but was cap-bumped nonetheless in the Cat'bread Sagrado Poblano Picoso). My thinkering is that I don't want to swamp the detection circuit by making the input cap 2u2, but hope to ensure some good low-end escapes the circuit.

Anyway, I've tried to do my homework and not be just spoonfed an answer, but I'm still hungry to find what if any affect changing the 1u output cap (C11) to 2u2 will have on impedance.

Many Thankages 🙏
I don't have a short answer. I'll give you this to ponder until I have the time to formulate a better response...

The output impedance only matters in relation to the input impedance of the next device in the chain. You have to look at the whole picture.
 
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