JRC4559D (NJM4559D) - Help me out

[Lytt Effects]

Hey all, I have a couple of builds coming up that call for the JRC4559D (Sliver and Stagecoach), but sourcing this part seems a bit difficult, with the only real option being AionFX. I will also be building a Cast Iron soon, which calls for the RC4559, which is readily available at StomBoxParts.com.

What is the difference between the JRC(NJM)4559D and the RC4559P, if any at all, and what are the reasonable substitutes for the former? I need to place an order for some components through SBP, so ideally I'd like to keep the order to one place, as I don't really need anything else from AionFX right now, and not sure I want to shell out the $3+ per IC plus shipping for a separate order if I can sub in something else.

Thanks in advance!

 

[jwin615]

The only difference is the packaging they're supplied in.
For opamps, letters at the end are for packaging type, both material and final delivery.
P indicates plastic dip, D is plastic dip on reel tape, oer TI datasheet(datasheets are your friends).
Number indicators at the end are different versions.
I'm sure there are some exceptions to this, especially for newer packages but when it comes to jelly beans, this holds true.

 

[jessenator]

I've started buying most of my ICs from places like Mouser/DigiKey. I know it's a pain buying from multiple sources, but at ~$0.80 per, you can order a small stock versus having to order singles each project you build. Unless you only make 2 pedals a year, with those components it doesn't hurt to keep a small stock of. That's for common (jellybean) parts, anyway. I wouldn't suggest investing in BBDs unless you move a lot of modulation pedals.

10x 4558s + base shipping is like maybe $17 from Mouser, unless they upped USPS rates. After a quick look Mouser has both, with the 4559 $1.07 and the 4558 at $0.82

But there are plenty of threads talking about sourcing parts, so I'll stop derailing. Search is your friend.

 

[Lytt Effects]

Thank you both!

So, from what I gather, it’s mainly the digits that I’m worried about. So the JRC or NJM or RC doesn’t really mean much, it’s just the 4559 portion that I need to focus on?

 

[jwin615]

JRC/RC/NJM/LM/UPC/UA are manufacturer designators.
Though some are used pretty generically (LM)
A 4558/9 with any prefix will be a functional equivalent of another.
I was speaking more to the suffix.
It's always good to check these. Like I said, the datasheet define D as a pdip(P) on tape. No difference to us.
*But*, there are also sip(single inline package) and to-220 package designators to keep an eye out for.

 

[StompBoxParts]

Both virtually the same, just different manufacturers.

RC4559P is the Texas Instruments (TI) version. P is their letter for PDIP (thru-hole).
RC4559D is TI. D is SOIC (SMT) in a tube. RC4559DR is SOIC on tape and reel.
NJM4559D (JRC/Nissinbo) is obsolete. D is their letter for PDIP package (standard 8 pin thru-hole)

There are other companies that make/made this chip but you're mostly going to find TI is the most common nowadays.

TI Datasheet. Package types on page 3.

 

[andrewsrea]

The JRC4559D is made from unicorn dust and the RC4559D is made from dehydrated dragon's breath.

Kidding aside, 4558s are pretty much made today from bi-polar substrate, die and film clones of either the Texas Instruments RC4558 (briefly LM4558) or Japan Radio Company (JRC) NJM4558's. New old stock (NOS) had some variability and I believe a 20% tolerance, with some 4558's sounding closer to a LM1458 and some sounding more HiFi. IMHO and due to modern manufacturing precision, these tolerances are now within 5% of specs, making them highly interchangeable with little perceived difference (with the exception of some really cheap imports, which use their own film and dies, and brand the dual op amps different things based on testing the performance to specs).

I had a bunch of NJM4558's (still have a few in devices I own and use) and a few RC4558's (one I know is in my favorite ODR-1 clone mod I did a few years ago). I bought my last batch of 4558's from Amazon (link below) and breadboard tested and swapped them in pedals for comparison to my NOS ICs. With exception to the one in my ODR-1, it was hard to tell the difference, especially if the effect was using clipping diodes. The Amazon 4558's were 20 out of 20 functional and within 5% tolerance. I think I paid 75 cents per, delivered.

I am sure others can chime in, but these dual op amp ICs go from loose, a little self-noise, high harmonic distortion and lo-fi (LM1458) to more HiFi, lower noise, faster transient (LM833, NE5538, etc). IMHO, a good 4558 is middle ground. And if you want to venture into FET based dual op amps, there are also a range of ICs which cover the messy to super audiophile and are the same pinouts and pretty much the same supply voltages. IMHO, FETs will sound and behave differently.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08NK2HLCC/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[spi]

I don't think you need to be too precious about using 4559s if you can't find them. Other dual opamps will work fine. Often not noticable. Sometimes noticable but subjective whether better or worse.

 

[Cybercow]

The JRC4559D is made from unicorn dust and the RC4559D is made from dehydrated dragon's breath.

Kidding aside, 4558s are pretty much made today from bi-polar substrate, die and film clones of either the Texas Instruments RC4558 (briefly LM4558) or Japan Radio Company (JRC) NJM4558's. New old stock (NOS) had some variability and I believe a 20% tolerance, with some 4558's sounding closer to a LM1458 and some sounding more HiFi. IMHO and due to modern manufacturing precision, these tolerances are now within 5% of specs, making them highly interchangeable with little perceived difference (with the exception of some really cheap imports, which use their own film and dies, and brand the dual op amps different things based on testing the performance to specs).

I had a bunch of NJM4558's (still have a few in devices I own and use) and a few RC4558's (one I know is in my favorite ODR-1 clone mod I did a few years ago). I bought my last batch of 4558's from Amazon (link below) and breadboard tested and swapped them in pedals for comparison to my NOS ICs. With exception to the one in my ODR-1, it was hard to tell the difference, especially if the effect was using clipping diodes. The Amazon 4558's were 20 out of 20 functional and within 5% tolerance. I think I paid 75 cents per, delivered.

I am sure others can chime in, but these dual op amp ICs go from loose, a little self-noise, high harmonic distortion and lo-fi (LM1458) to more HiFi, lower noise, faster transient (LM833, NE5538, etc). IMHO, a good 4558 is middle ground. And if you want to venture into FET based dual op amps, there are also a range of ICs which cover the messy to super audiophile and are the same pinouts and pretty much the same supply voltages. IMHO, FETs will sound and behave differently.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08NK2HLCC/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

So, no homunculus mucus in a 4558? Shame.

But even without unicorn dust, dehydrated dragon's breath or homunculus mucus in either the 4559 or 4558, both are nearly identical (spec sheet-wise) except that the 4558 has a 1.7V/µs slew-rate while the 4559 has a 2.0V/µs slew-rate; and both are low input impedance devices. And I've yet to meet or know of anyone who can honestly claim they can aurally detect any difference between them - whether JRC, NJM, RC or LM.

Both circuits mentioned in the OP are dirt pedals and as such, seeking perfection out of a specific opamp for a dirt circuit tends to garner a propensity for cork sniffin'.

IMO, any of the jellybean dual opamps with a BJT (low impedance) input and a slew-rate of better than 0.5V/µs running at +9V should be audibly indiscernible from one another in either of the Silver or Stagecoach circuits.

Here's a list of pin-for-pin dual opamp replacements . . . .

BJT Input Dual Opamps:
LM358 - Slew = 0.3V/µs (@ unity); BJT
LM1458 - Slew = 0.5V/µs; BJT
LM4558 - Slew = 1.7V/µs, BJT
LM4559 - Slew = 2V/µs; BJT
uPC4570 - Slew = 7V/µs; BJT
LM4580 - Slew = 5V/µs; BJT
LM833 - Slew = 7V/µs; BJT
LMV652 - Slew = 3V/µs ~ 0.12 mA; BJT
MAE2741 - Slew = 1.6V/µs; BJT
MC33178 - Slew = 2V/µs; BJT
NE5532 - Slew = 9V/µs; BJT
NJM4560 - Slew = 5.5V/µs; BJT
NJM4565 - Slew = 4V/µs; BJT
NJU7032 - Slew = 3.5V/μs; BJT
RC4559 - Slew = 2V/µs; BJT
JRC2068 - Slew = 6V/µs; BJT
TL022 - Slew = 0.5V/µs ~ 0.13 mA; BJT

Low Noise dual-opamps (pin for pin TL072 equivalents):
TTH:
OPA2134 - Slew = 20V/µs; FET
OPA2604 - Slew = 25V/µs; FET
OP275 - Slew = 22V/µs; FET
TLE2072A - Slew = 38V/µs; FET
TLE2072C - Slew = 45V/µs; FET

SMD:
OPA1612AID - Slew = 27V/µs; FET
LM833DR - Slew = 7V/µs; BJT

 

[andrewsrea]

So, no homunculus mucus in a 4558? Shame.

But even without unicorn dust, dehydrated dragon's breath or homunculus mucus in either the 4559 or 4558, both are nearly identical (spec sheet-wise) except that the 4558 has a 1.7V/µs slew-rate while the 4559 has a 2.0V/µs slew-rate; and both are low input impedance devices. And I've yet to meet or know of anyone who can honestly claim they can aurally detect any difference between them - whether JRC, NJM, RC or LM.

Both circuits mentioned in the OP are dirt pedals and as such, seeking perfection out of a specific opamp for a dirt circuit tends to garner a propensity for cork sniffin'.

IMO, any of the jellybean dual opamps with a BJT (low impedance) input and a slew-rate of better than 0.5V/µs running at +9V should be audibly indiscernible from one another in either of the Silver or Stagecoach circuits.

Here's a list of pin-for-pin dual opamp replacements . . . .

BJT Input Dual Opamps:
LM358 - Slew = 0.3V/µs (@ unity); BJT
LM1458 - Slew = 0.5V/µs; BJT
LM4558 - Slew = 1.7V/µs, BJT
LM4559 - Slew = 2V/µs; BJT
uPC4570 - Slew = 7V/µs; BJT
LM4580 - Slew = 5V/µs; BJT
LM833 - Slew = 7V/µs; BJT
LMV652 - Slew = 3V/µs ~ 0.12 mA; BJT
MAE2741 - Slew = 1.6V/µs; BJT
MC33178 - Slew = 2V/µs; BJT
NE5532 - Slew = 9V/µs; BJT
NJM4560 - Slew = 5.5V/µs; BJT
NJM4565 - Slew = 4V/µs; BJT
NJU7032 - Slew = 3.5V/μs; BJT
RC4559 - Slew = 2V/µs; BJT
JRC2068 - Slew = 6V/µs; BJT
TL022 - Slew = 0.5V/µs ~ 0.13 mA; BJT

Low Noise dual-opamps (pin for pin TL072 equivalents):
TTH:
OPA2134 - Slew = 20V/µs; FET
OPA2604 - Slew = 25V/µs; FET
OP275 - Slew = 22V/µs; FET
TLE2072A - Slew = 38V/µs; FET
TLE2072C - Slew = 45V/µs; FET

SMD:
OPA1612AID - Slew = 27V/µs; FET
LM833DR - Slew = 7V/µs; BJT

Great and informative reply!

It is amazing that some of these slew rates are higher than the IC's rail to rail max voltage supply. At 61, my hearing is flat to 12KHz and through countless hours of studio work, I can focus on minutia. That said and simply in the realm of effect pedals, I find that a slew rate below 1V/uS can provide a smear, which IMHO is a musical warmth, especially in low to mid gain. The 4558 at 1.7V/uS is a goldilocks device and anything above 5V/uS starts getting sterile, which can be good when doing alot of cascading or building an effect for detuned or bass guitars, where a defined deep low is desired.

To me Bi-polar ICs sound smooth and FET based does the raspy / crunchy really well.

 

[giovanni]

Great and informative reply!

It is amazing that some of these slew rates are higher than the IC's rail to rail max voltage supply. At 61, my hearing is flat to 12KHz and through countless hours of studio work, I can focus on minutia. That said and simply in the realm of effect pedals, I find that a slew rate below 1V/uS can provide a smear, which IMHO is a musical warmth, especially in low to mid gain. The 4558 at 1.7V/uS is a goldilocks device and anything above 5V/uS starts getting sterile, which can be good when doing alot of cascading or building an effect for detuned or bass guitars, where a defined deep low is desired.

To me Bi-polar ICs sound smooth and FET based does the raspy / crunchy really well.

Slew rate and voltage are not comparable quantities. The slew rate has to do with voltage change over time. For opamps, it basically tells you how much “slope” in the signal the device can handle. For example if you feed it a perfect square wave, the rise and fall will be “smoothed out” according to the slew rate.

Slew rate - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[jwin615]

Slew rate and voltage are not comparable quantities. The slew rate has to do with voltage change over time. For opamps, it basically tells you how much “slope” in the signal the device can handle. For example if you feed it a perfect square wave, the rise and fall will be “smoothed out” according to the slew rate.

Slew rate - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I think the point in his/her statement was, quantifying a measurement in a impossible unit for said device. 45v/uS on a device that can't handle a +/-22.5 supply
Of course you can measure in sub microseconds to validate it but I do see the irony in the spec.

 

[andrewsrea]

I think the point in his/her statement was, quantifying a measurement in a impossible unit for said device. 45v/uS on a device that can't handle a +/-22.5 supply
Of course you can measure in sub microseconds to validate it but I do see the irony in the spec.

Exactly. I understand slew rate to be how much voltage can change in a uS and stay linear and not sag. Most dual op amps are rated between 28VDC and 36VDC, with many exhibiting crossover distortions as the signal goes rail-to-rail. 40V / uS in theory, means the device is not capable of going non-linear at max power suppled.

 

[giovanni]

I guess I don't understand the point. Slew rate limits the maximum frequency at a certain amplitude. For example if you had an 18V peak to peak sine wave and a slew rate of 1 V/us, the maximum frequency the amp could handle without distorting is around 8.8kHz (please check my math, the formula is on Wikipedia, I think I got it right). So we have distortion in the audible range. If you double the peak voltage, you half the frequency so that’s even worse and so on. What are you guys trying to say that I’m not understanding?

Edit: full disclosure I’m in Europe so it’s almost midnight now so forgive me if I’m totally off here, I’m pretty tired!

 

[Cybercow]

As I understand it, slew rate is defined as the maximum rate of change of an op amps output voltage, and is given in units of volts per microsecond. Slew rate is measured by applying a large signal step, such as one volt, to the input of the op amp, and measuring the rate of change from 10% to 90% of the output signal's amplitude. It indicates the op-amp's ability to follow rapid changes in the input signal without introducing distortion.