Muffin Fuzz- triangle BOM question

Bricksnbeatles

Member known well
I was just looking at the Muffin build docs, and I noticed that the BOM for the triangle muff isn’t entirely consistent with the schematics I’ve seen in the past for the Triangle revision of the big muff— for example the BOM for the Triangle revision says to omit R8, which goes from the base of Q2 to ground, however every triangle muff schematic I’ve found on the internet shows there as being a 100K resistor from the base of Q2 to ground. Likewise with C2, which goes between the collector and base of Q1— it’s omitted from triangle BOM for the muffin, but every schematic for a Triangle Big Muff shows a 500pF or 470pF cap between the base and collector of Q1.
Some of the actual part values are also pretty different from the schematics I’ve seen— the Fox revision is much more similar to any of the Triangle schematics I’ve found, which makes sense as the three-knob Guild Foxey Lady was to my understanding, the *exact* same circuit revision as the Triangle muff (since they were just rebranded big muffs).
Just wondering what the reason is for these discrepancies— is the Triangle Muffin BOM based on a particular modded triangle muff that I’m unaware of, or perhaps the recent 1590B sized triangle muff that EHX is making now?
 
So many versions of BMPs. I like the chart of all of the different part values on page 3 in the Muffin build document here:

Interesting— that link has r9 in place (though at a different value), but C2 omitted for the Triangle revision. I’m aware of the many many different muff variants, but those two components in particular have been in every single schematic I’ve seen for the Triangle revision(s) of the big muff— short of what KitRae calls the “Green Cap Triangke”, which is missing C2 but has R9 intact
 
GPCB's chart is but one of many like it... Though it's been streamlined, IMO, for ease of building different versions of the same circuit on GPCB's boards (I think they're a great Muff board for mods, btw). GPCB often inverts an R/C to a C/R and other minor tweaks to its versions of circuits — I guess that's part of why you're not allowed to use the C-word on the forum over there, never say a GPCB circuit is a "clone". I've compared a lot of Muff charts/docs/schematics' values (GPCB, Aion, Fuzzdog etc) and there are a lot of deviations from whatever Muff-norm you care to look at. Kit Rae's pages point out plenty of the sub-variants.

Yet there are even "anomalies" within Kit Rae's pages; there are discrepancies between the chart floating around "that forum" and many of the other "PCB suppliers" of this/ that/ the other Muff... and Muff threads on the Etherweb that point out errors in this or that modern clone or someone's personal build — "I have an original [year, model etc] Muff, and that part value in [replica] is WRONG!"

EHX pumped them out as fast as possible with whatever parts were readily available and cheap. There may be as yet undiscovered versions of Muffs that were only made that way for a month, a week, a day... I can see Matthews champing his cigar on the production floor "Run out of the 470p cap? Stick in something else or just leave it out! GET THAT UNIT BOXED AND OUT THE DOOR!"

I'm no Muff expert, I'm just fascinated with the fascination with Muffs. It's not unheard of where a schematic is copied and repeated and perpetuated as being "Circuit XYZ" only to find the original trace and all the subsequent copies are incorrect. Kit Rae points this out in regards to the BYOC Muff, IIRC. It was traced from one of EHX's anomalies, but has become accepted as the definitive version of that Muff version.

I say sod the so-called definitive versions of Triangle / Ram's Head / Russian ... whatever! Build whichever one is closest to your vision and then further tweak it to personal taste. 😸



TLDR: EHX variants of versions abound.
 
GPCB's chart is but one of many like it... Though it's been streamlined, IMO, for ease of building different versions of the same circuit on GPCB's boards (I think they're a great Muff board for mods, btw). GPCB often inverts an R/C to a C/R and other minor tweaks to its versions of circuits — I guess that's part of why you're not allowed to use the C-word on the forum over there, never say a GPCB circuit is a "clone". I've compared a lot of Muff charts/docs/schematics' values (GPCB, Aion, Fuzzdog etc) and there are a lot of deviations from whatever Muff-norm you care to look at. Kit Rae's pages point out plenty of the sub-variants.

Yet there are even "anomalies" within Kit Rae's pages; there are discrepancies between the chart floating around "that forum" and many of the other "PCB suppliers" of this/ that/ the other Muff... and Muff threads on the Etherweb that point out errors in this or that modern clone or someone's personal build — "I have an original [year, model etc] Muff, and that part value in [replica] is WRONG!"

EHX pumped them out as fast as possible with whatever parts were readily available and cheap. There may be as yet undiscovered versions of Muffs that were only made that way for a month, a week, a day... I can see Matthews champing his cigar on the production floor "Run out of the 470p cap? Stick in something else or just leave it out! GET THAT UNIT BOXED AND OUT THE DOOR!"

I'm no Muff expert, I'm just fascinated with the fascination with Muffs. It's not unheard of where a schematic is copied and repeated and perpetuated as being "Circuit XYZ" only to find the original trace and all the subsequent copies are incorrect. Kit Rae points this out in regards to the BYOC Muff, IIRC. It was traced from one of EHX's anomalies, but has become accepted as the definitive version of that Muff version.

I say sod the so-called definitive versions of Triangle / Ram's Head / Russian ... whatever! Build whichever one is closest to your vision and then further tweak it to personal taste. 😸



TLDR: EHX variants of versions abound.
Yeah, definitely spot on about the variants being endless lol. I’ve just never seen a variant of a particular muff circuit revision/era completely omit a component that’s usually in that revision/era— usually just subs for another component that’s within a pretty broad (like +/- one full order of magnitude) of the standard. I’ve seen other revisions/eras of muff that have those two components missing, but never in a triangle muff, so I thought that was a bit interesting— I wonder if that was something that was done in a transitional period between V1 and V2, or if it was just something they did to cut costs for a week or two at some random point in production. If there’s one thing vintage EHX stuff is lacking, it’s consistency. Luckily muffs are plentiful and easy to make, so it’s not too hard to find one you like, and then clone it to those exact specs, but with stuff like the older microsynth and the polychorus which are hard to come across, you could easily get stuck with one that sounds terrible, and go years without finding another at all.
 
GPCB's chart is but one of many like it... Though it's been streamlined, IMO, for ease of building different versions of the same circuit on GPCB's boards (I think they're a great Muff board for mods, btw). GPCB often inverts an R/C to a C/R and other minor tweaks to its versions of circuits — I guess that's part of why you're not allowed to use the C-word on the forum over there, never say a GPCB circuit is a "clone". I've compared a lot of Muff charts/docs/schematics' values (GPCB, Aion, Fuzzdog etc) and there are a lot of deviations from whatever Muff-norm you care to look at. Kit Rae's pages point out plenty of the sub-variants.

Yet there are even "anomalies" within Kit Rae's pages; there are discrepancies between the chart floating around "that forum" and many of the other "PCB suppliers" of this/ that/ the other Muff... and Muff threads on the Etherweb that point out errors in this or that modern clone or someone's personal build — "I have an original [year, model etc] Muff, and that part value in [replica] is WRONG!"

EHX pumped them out as fast as possible with whatever parts were readily available and cheap. There may be as yet undiscovered versions of Muffs that were only made that way for a month, a week, a day... I can see Matthews champing his cigar on the production floor "Run out of the 470p cap? Stick in something else or just leave it out! GET THAT UNIT BOXED AND OUT THE DOOR!"

I'm no Muff expert, I'm just fascinated with the fascination with Muffs. It's not unheard of where a schematic is copied and repeated and perpetuated as being "Circuit XYZ" only to find the original trace and all the subsequent copies are incorrect. Kit Rae points this out in regards to the BYOC Muff, IIRC. It was traced from one of EHX's anomalies, but has become accepted as the definitive version of that Muff version.

I say sod the so-called definitive versions of Triangle / Ram's Head / Russian ... whatever! Build whichever one is closest to your vision and then further tweak it to personal taste. 😸



TLDR: EHX variants of versions abound.
The variations in the build for the old versions certainly do a lot to create a demand for them, especially among collectors.
 
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