Sea Horse Mods

Chuck D. Bones

Well-known member
How much max delay do you want? In other words, what is the max setting you use now with the B50K pot? From that we can decide if you want to replace it with a 5K, 10K or 25K pot. We only want to do this once because replacing pots is hard on the board.

Changing R7 & R11 make the DEPTH control work better and not interact so much with the TIME control.
 

teal

New member
The pedal starts to have an old vinyls kind of noisefloor with animate (and delay mod 50K) between 8 and 9 o'clock.
I did all your mods, so the delayed signal is filtered.
I wish to have as less noise as possible, so it is not the length of the delay in the first place that I want to change.
The delay still sounds more pleasant than the one on the Dark Rift. The Dark Rift sounded too cold and gloomy for my taste.
But I feel it still can have a little more warmth than it has now and less noise.
Would it be possible to tweak the filter a little more to achieve that?
 

teal

New member
What impact have the capacitors on the sound?
I see you use different ones than provided.
In my kit from Musikding there are a lot of electrolyte capacitors and C5 and C6 are ceramics on my pcb. Maybe I should change them into better ones like you did
 

Chuck D. Bones

Well-known member
The pedal starts to have an old vinyls kind of noisefloor with animate (and delay mod 50K) between 8 and 9 o'clock.
I did all your mods, so the delayed signal is filtered.
I wish to have as less noise as possible, so it is not the length of the delay in the first place that I want to change.
The delay still sounds more pleasant than the one on the Dark Rift. The Dark Rift sounded too cold and gloomy for my taste.
But I feel it still can have a little more warmth than it has now and less noise.
Would it be possible to tweak the filter a little more to achieve that?
If I understand correctly, you are only interested in chorus, reverb & vibrato tones. If that's the case, then B5K is what you want for the TIME (ANIMATE) pot.

I have the filters set to be pretty neutral. You could open up the bandwidth a bit since you are using less delay, but more filter bandwidth means more noise. You might be better off using a pedal after the Sea Horse to tweak the tone. If what you're after is a low noise delay, then an FV-1 board will be more to your liking. Try the Octagon.

What impact have the capacitors on the sound?
I see you use different ones than provided.
In my kit from Musikding there are a lot of electrolyte capacitors and C5 and C6 are ceramics on my pcb. Maybe I should change them into better ones like you did
Film caps are better than ceramic. You could change C5 & C6 to film, but you might not hear the difference.
 

teal

New member
If I understand correctly, you are only interested in chorus, reverb & vibrato tones. If that's the case, then B5K is what you want for the TIME (ANIMATE) pot.

Then B5K might be the deal for my pedal! I will try that.
I'm excited about the F V1 Delays. I purchased a kit for the Hydra Delay some days ago.
Film caps are better than ceramic. You could change C5 & C6 to film, but you might not hear the difference.

I put some different capacitors on the LPF2 (C6) of the PT2399 Chip and it seems to be a point where it has a lot impact on high cut frequencies and the noise related to the modulation.
The higher the value of the capacitor, the more high frequencies are cut.
I compared the LPF2 stages of different delays with each other.
The Sea Horse has 470pF on LPF2.
The Faux Delay has 1nF on that stage and the Blue Delay 2,2nF.
In my ears the Faux and the Blue still sound really great with longer delay settings.
Of course they sound more like an alalogue style Pedal. But that's what I think the PT2399 is best in
 
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Chuck D. Bones

Well-known member
That'll work. C5 is one of two capacitors that tunes the input filter LPF1. The 6.8nF cap that I add in my filter mod is the 2nd cap. R3-R5 also influence the filter's tuning. Adding the 6.8nF cap changes LPF1 from a 1st-order filter to a 2nd-order filter. Higher-order filters have a sharper cutoff, i.e. they attenuate more of the unwanted signal above the cutoff freq. C6 is one of two capacitors that tunes the output filter LPF2. C11 is the other cap. I did not feel the need to retune LPF2.

With time-sample systems, filtering is a trade between bandwidth and noise. Let too much high-freq content in and it gets aliased, which sounds dissonant & noisy. The output from a sampled system contains quantization noise and sampling images that are also dissonant & noisy. Filtering reduces that unwanted crap. The filtering requirements are dependent on sample rate, which in the case of most delays is variable. Filtering that sounds good with short delay settings may not sound good at longer delay settings.

Analog delays (BBDs) are also time-sampled and benefit from the same filtering. Tape delays use filtering on the input and output to reduce tape hiss. The filtering, or lack thereof, contributes to the characteristic voice of the various delays.

I mentioned the FV-1 earlier. Like the PT2399, it is a digital sampled system. What makes the FV-1 so much clearer (more bandwidth and lower noise) is its higher sampling rate and resolution.
 

teal

New member
That are very usefull informations!
Would be great having a Sea Horse based on a FV-1 one day :)

Now if my pedal does not have the very long delay settings anymore, I think it can get rid of the ultra slow Rate mod settings and becoming a little bit faster again.
Is it enough to change C20 from 1uF to a lower capacitor, let's say 0,68uF?
 
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teal

New member
So true, but Rate was too fast for me in the original and not slow enough. I will try a way of the middle kind of thing :)
It's good to know now which part it is!

I checked out the pedal with the bass too and it works great in any frequency now.
The original was only really responsive in high notes, that was very strange some times, especially with the bass.

But it also was an advantage that the effect reacted on how you attack the strings and the created overtones.
I wished to have a way of the middle there too, but I don't know which parts are responsible.
I guess it has to do with the filter mod? You mentioned before that I can open up the bandwidth if I'm only using shorter delay times.
 
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teal

New member
I tried it out: 5K pot works really great for animate, if you like to maximise the delay time without increasing noise, but 10K pot is still good.

R7 can easily be turned down to 1K, if you like to have a drier chorus sound (less echo) with animate set to zero and also increased reverb sound with the Dimension knob in that setting. Less than 1K are not recommended, because the PT2399 can make problems then
 
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