So… true bypass is a tone suck on all my pedals? (Audio example included)

[kylewetton]

So I’ve always been under the impression that true bypass was mean to completely bypass the circuit, but what do you think is going on here?

Please watch the video and any explanation or clarification will be great for me to learn

 

[gonzo]

Was the first clip with one cable only? Cables have impedance too. Also bad connections can also degrade the signal. Check the cables each too.

 

[kylewetton]

Was the first clip with one cable only? Cables have impedance too. Also bad connections can also degrade the signal. Check the cables each too.

Nah same cables, same length, it was into my testing box (so just no circuit) instead of a pedal.

 

[gonzo]

Buffers help sometimes to put back the treble in a long chain of cables. Try a buffered pedal before and/or after it too

 

[kylewetton]

Buffers help sometimes to put back the treble in a long chain of cables. Try a buffered pedal before and/or after it too

Yeah I’ll likely do that, but I’m just curious as to what’s going on here

 

[gonzo]

I've had plug jacks do the same thing for no apparent reason that I've had to swap out of pedals. Something could be faulty

 

[kylewetton]

I j

I've had plug jacks do the same thing for no apparent reason that I've had to swap out of pedals. Something could be faulty

I just tried my Friedman BE-OD (not a clone) and it does the same thing. This is into Logic Pro with an amp sim, I wonder if by any chance it could be that. What’s a plug jack?

 

[hamerfan]

With truebypass the signal goes from input jack to stomp switch to output jack. What should influence the sound? Oxidated jacks? Bad stomp switch?

 

[kylewetton]

With truebypass the signal goes from input jack to stomp switch to output jack. What should influence the sound? Oxidated jacks? Bad stomp switch?

Yeah I've been scratching my head, they're brand new footswitches, brand new pedalpcb switch boards, (the 9 hole circuitboards you solder to the switch), and brand new jacks. Same components used in the empty box that you're hearing in the first and last chord that sounds fine.

 

[hamerfan]

The good thing is yesterday I got a Polytune3 with a switchable bonafide buffer. I will try it in my signal chain tomorrow and see whether this makes a difference.

 

[MichaelW]

This is why I'm a huge fan of running a buffer at the beginning of your signal chain. It's not necessarily long cable runs that have impedance.
Just a couple of pedals can do this to your signal.

@hamerfan I run a PolyTune3 at the start of my chain in buffered mode as well. I also run a General Tso compressor right after the tuner which is also buffered. Sometimes if I'm messing around with a ton of pedals comparing them, I'll run a buffer at the end of the chain.

I currently also have 4 pedals in a "buffered loop" for time based effects (delay, reverb) that comes last in my chain before my interface. It's a dedicated loop with a buffered input. (not on the output)

 

[Coda]

True bypass means the circuit in a pedal will not color the tone when bypassed, but doesn’t protect against the natural tone loss inherent in a pedal board due to the capacitance of the connections. The longer the signal path, the greater the tone loss…

Remember: buffered bypass is good, don’t buy into to all the “true bypass” hype…

 

[cdwillis]

Unless I'm testing an individual pedal I always have my Boss TU-2 at the start of my pedalboard. It makes a noticeable difference in high end sparkle even with my relatively short cables.

 

[bhcarpenter]

Also remember if you’re running a 125b with top jacks and a 3pdt (instead of a relay near the jacks) you’re adding around ten inches of wire per pedal even when bypassed. It adds up.

 

[kylewetton]

Also remember if you’re running a 125b with top jacks and a 3pdt (instead of a relay near the jacks) you’re adding around ten inches of wire per pedal even when bypassed. It adds up.

I was thinking of this, but consider that in my test video, the empty box has the same wire / 3PDT setup

 

[Gordo]

That is very weird. 12' of cable and a single true-bypass pedal in my brain should be completely transparent. In my live rig I have a Line6 Relay wireless with it's buffer into a Polytune mini (which I think is an always on buffer). I've never thought to dig into the rest of the chain. I've run into short cables that inexplicably ate top end but suspect it was crappy cable...however it remained consistently crappy no matter what it was plugged into.

 

[bhcarpenter]

Is there any chance you’ve swapped tip and sleeve on one of your jacks? How’s the grounding? It might help to have some gut shots of the pedals from your video.

 

[HamishR]

This stuff does my head in! For years I have read and heard that you need at least one buffer in your chain if you run FX. But 99% of buffers sound horrible to me. I can't stand Boss buffers, so don't use Boss pedals, for example. It has to be either a really good buffer or TBP for me.

I use very few pedals for gigging/rehearsal etc - generally a tuner, OD and delay. So I'm not exactly loading the signal chain with disasters waiting to happen. I have a Korg tuner which is TBP. I actually bought it specifically because it is TBP (via relay I'm sure). It doesn't hurt that it's a great tuner too. My ODs are all TBP - I make them. Then (at the moment for home use) I have a UA Starlight delay and a Strymon Flint. If I add my Boss DM2-W it reduces the dynamics and midrange detail in my sound. I used to use a Boss tuner - same problem. The delay and reverb don't change much tonally - if there is a change I can barely hear it. If I compare the sound of my amp with my guitar plugged straight into it to the guitar coming through my FX chain there is barely any change. But if I add a Boss pedal it all starts to sound/feel a bit artificial and lifeless. The delay and reverb are supposedly TBP but I suspect they use relays so I don't know if they really are or not.

I was experimenting with a Klon which I built from a PedalPCB board. The buffer made one of my other pedals sound bad. I think it was a Red Rooster clone. So I turned the Klon into TBP and problem solved. Any time I have a full time buffer in there it seriously impacts my sound.

I guess what I can make out of all of this is that you just have to see for yourself what works for you. The internet consensus doesn't always work for everyone! I spend a lot of time getting my guitar to sound as good as it can and when you do this you get to know the sounds intimately. If something starts to get in the way you hear it.

Sometimes I wish I could return to the days of just plugging in to my Twin Reverb with my trusty Ibanez PDM1 and Boss chorus in the FX loop and be none the wiser. But at least my guitar sounds about 100 times better now. I hope!

 

[jimilee]

One day at rehearsal, I wasn’t feeling it, so I ran straight into my amp…Wow what a difference. You’d be surprised at just how different it sounds on your rig.

 

[eh là bas ma]

I wonder if the true bypass tone loss and buffer's behaviors are also related to the guitar's pickups ?

Active / passive, impedance, etc...

Aren't active pickups easier to use in a long signal chain, with multiple effects ?